LIV Golf

[Swango1980]

3 massive names left in the PGA
Rory
Thomas
Scheffler
All others are just names

I'd argue that Scheffler isn't even a massive name. Clearly a quality golfer, going through a really good patch, and deservedly World Number 1. But, I'm yet to know any fan that really gets excited about watching him play? Maybe more in America.

So, I'd take Scheffler off the list. However, I'd add Rahm. But after that, I agree, who are the other current PGA Players currently drawing people in to watch PGA Tour events? Maybe Spieth. After that, who really cares. I guess some of the international (non USA) golfers will still bring in the fans from their own countries. But, other than that, I don't think fans generally get excited by the prospect of seeing Cantlay, Smith, Hovland, Burns, Fitzpatrick, etc. I reckon if many had to make a choice, they'd rather see Bryson, DJ and Brooks battling it out on LIV.

 

[PJ87]

Using actual statistics (the PGA tours PIP payments) I would argue 4 of the "biggest" 10 players in golf have now left the PGA tour.

https://www.pgatour.com/news/2022/0...ogram-pip-phil-mickelson-finsihes-second.html

This obviously isnt a talent metric, but you cant ignore the fact that 4 of the top 10 most well known players on the planet have deferred to LIV.

As I said previously, they have attracted those who are impacting the socials rather than those who are great golfers but dull as dishwater

 

[Mel Smooth]

Losing someone like Morikawa would be the stand up moment - he is very relevant , in the Top 5 , winning big comps right now with the golf world at his feet

If he moves over then the PGA May well look to change their stance - or they would just carry on removing their membership - they will protect themselves

The ranking points is key for the tours - that’s the door into the majors - they were talking about them one evening on the coverage and they heard whispers that they won’t give the points to events only based on 54 holes and with limited fields etc

if the events were given ranking points then it will be a game changer and also what happens with Ryder Cup points as well

Phil what happens if the LIV are succesful in obtaining ranking points?

I understand that the votes are cast by several bodies, and the PGA would need the majors to vote with them to stop the LIV getting points.
There's no guarantee that they would do that, infact if the LIV has some serious players competing - which it has, then a vote to stop them getting points by the majors would appear as a petty allegiance with a wounded PGA Tour - with no real basis for their vote, and it certainly would just pour more fuel on the fire of division that the PGA Tour has created?

 

[PJ87]

Phil what happens if the LIV are succesful in obtaining ranking points?

I understand that the votes are cast by several bodies, and the PGA would need the majors to vote with them to stop the LIV getting points.
There's no guarantee that they would do that, infact if the LIV has some serious players competing - which it has, then a vote to stop them getting points by the majors would appear as a petty allegiance with a wounded PGA Tour - with no real basis for their vote, and it certainly would just pour more fuel on the fire of division that the PGA Tour has created?

They don't even need to be successful

They can just align with another tour or the dp world not ban their players and they get points for playing on the dp world tour

It's really not complex as people make out

 

[pokerjoke]

Si







I'd add Rahm, and Zalatoris to that - he's become really popular in a short space of time but other than that, certainly for a lot of the US players who I have no affinity with, I'd agree that they are just names.

Not that long ago that Rory was struggling with his form, guaranteed if there'd been an option to defect to different tour, and he'd taken it, he'd have been labelled as past his best by some.

The 3 I mention get massive followings in tournaments,Scheffler more recently
Rahm,Zalatoris,Hovland etc all a bit equal.
Only an opinion of course

 

[Mel Smooth]

The 3 I mention get massive followings in tournaments,Scheffler more recently
Rahm,Zalatoris,Hovland etc all a bit equal.
Only an opinion of course

That's a fair point, as I don't have Sky I dont watch much of the PGA Tour so wouldn't know who is popular out on the course.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Phil what happens if the LIV are succesful in obtaining ranking points?

I understand that the votes are cast by several bodies, and the PGA would need the majors to vote with them to stop the LIV getting points.
There's no guarantee that they would do that, infact if the LIV has some serious players competing - which it has, then a vote to stop them getting points by the majors would appear as a petty allegiance with a wounded PGA Tour - with no real basis for their vote, and it certainly would just pour more fuel on the fire of division that the PGA Tour has created?

If they are successful in getting ranking points then the players that will be worried about entry in the majors will open their eyes - the events will of course carry the ranking points of the players at the events so you could have events where more ranking points are available on a LIV event - then it becomes more than just a money exhibition - and that may entice those players who’s career in blossoming etc

I would expect that the major governing bodies to side with the established tours at the moment - the tours that have let’s be honest helped provide the platform for the majors. The working relationship between them is there

The ET is a key element right now - they recently became more aligned with the PGA tour - hence more co sanctioned events , ET have a choice - break that alignment and look to join with LIV ( they have previously turned the money down ) or use it to gain a stronger working partnership with the PGA Tour .

 

[Deleted member 21445]

These to go before the next Liv Event.

1. Collin Morikawa
2. Cameron Smith
3. Patrick Cantlay
4. Victor Hovland
5. Matthew Wolf
6. Abraham Ancer
7. Rickie Fowler

Lets see if im right

 

[PJ87]

These to go before the next Liv Event.

1. Collin Morikawa
2. Cameron Smith
3. Patrick Cantlay
4. Victor Hovland
5. Matthew Wolf
6. Abraham Ancer
7. Rickie Fowler

Lets see if im right

1-4 massive
5 decent
6-7 solid players

Has bubba gone yet?

 

[Depreston]

These to go before the next Liv Event.

1. Collin Morikawa
2. Cameron Smith
3. Patrick Cantlay
4. Victor Hovland
5. Matthew Wolf
6. Abraham Ancer
7. Rickie Fowler

Lets see if im right

If morikawa smith and hovland go well god knows what the pga tour does

 

[PJ87]

If morikawa smith and hovland go well god knows what the pga tour does

If the PGA just goes right players can come and go as they please and play for us and Liv

Would it actually effect them that much if they have lost that list anyways?

 

[Mel Smooth]

If they are successful in getting ranking points then the players that will be worried about entry in the majors will open their eyes - the events will of course carry the ranking points of the players at the events so you could have events where more ranking points are available on a LIV event - then it becomes more than just a money exhibition - and that may entice those players who’s career in blossoming etc

I would expect that the major governing bodies to side with the established tours at the moment - the tours that have let’s be honest helped provide the platform for the majors. The working relationship between them is there

The ET is a key element right now - they recently became more aligned with the PGA tour - hence more co sanctioned events , ET have a choice - break that alignment and look to join with LIV ( they have previously turned the money down ) or use it to gain a stronger working partnership with the PGA Tour .

Personally I'd hope what the public want, and that is to have more competetive golf. The US Open have already set a precedent for allowing LIV players to compete, a precendent that the other majors will feel obliged to follow.

You keep saying these are exhibition matches, but they simply aren't. Yes, the players are guaranteed to get paid, but the financial gains for finishing high up are simply huge. None of those players on the LIV series that have compteted on the PGA Tour or ET with a degree of success, will be happy to just turn up for the minimum amount.

 

[Deleted member 21445]

The players are the power brokers here.. Make no mistake.

If enough of the worlds top 50 players go, the majors will want to have world ranking points appointed to Liv Events.
The majors cant have a situation where a good chunk of the worlds top 50 players cant qualify for their events.

They lose some kudos if all the best players are not there competing for their major trophy.

 

[Mel Smooth]

If the PGA just goes right players can come and go as they please and play for us and Liv

Would it actually effect them that much if they have lost that list anyways?

This is what is bemusing - they can put all the moral responsibilitis on the players, but instead the PGA Tour have tried to force their morals on anybody that competes for them - these are grown adults, with employees, mdeia teams etc. I'm sure a few of them have felt like the PGA Tour are trying to force way too much influence and public judgement on them.

 

[Swango1980]

If the PGA just goes right players can come and go as they please and play for us and Liv

Would it actually effect them that much if they have lost that list anyways?

Well, it would certainly impact the 10-14 events the weeks the LIV Tour tournaments are scheduled. Furthermore, as players have indicated that the LIV Tour will help them free up their calendar, I can imagine quite a few of them would opt NOT to play in some weeks where there is no LIV event, when they might previously have done so.

Therefore, imagine how the PGA Tour event sponsors would feel if they were sponsoring the Canadian Open, yet all the best players in the world were playing on LIV that week. They are not going to invest anywhere near the same amount into standard PGA Tour events. Furthermore, I reckon broadcasters will get interested in buying the rights for LIV if it takes off. If so, they are not going to offer anywhere near the same amount to broadcast the PGA Tour. Why would they, it is a weakened tour to what is once was.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Personally I'd hope what the public want, and that is to have more competetive golf. The US Open have already set a precedent for allowing LIV players to compete, a precendent that the other majors will feel obliged to follow.

Which public ? Because let’s be honest there isn’t som universal love for the LIV tour and there are a lot of people who don’t like and a lot of people who enjoy the current Tours make up and the 4 day 72 hole events

Social media responses to posts of players leaving don’t paint the picture that it’s what the majority want - suspect it’s far from that

The US Open is “Open” - it’s available for anyone to enter and qualify , same with The Open - anyone from your local golf pro to the club champion can try to qualify - there is no membership as such , there hasn’t been any precedent set - they just continue as they always will do

You keep saying these are exhibition matches, but they simply aren't. Yes, the players are guaranteed to get paid, but the financial gains for finishing high up are simply huge. None of those players on the LIV series that have compteted on the PGA Tour or ET with a degree of success, will be happy to just turn up for the minimum amount.

They are exhibitions - players are getting paid vast sums just to turn up , the ones who have been a success on other tours are getting paid just to be there - regardless of how they perform , it is an exhibition

and as for Morikawa

https://twitter.com/x/status/1539260459664261120

 

[Mel Smooth]

Which public ? Because let’s be honest there isn’t som universal love for the LIV tour and there are a lot of people who don’t like and a lot of people who enjoy the current Tours make up and the 4 day 72 hole events

Social media responses to posts of players leaving don’t paint the picture that it’s what the majority want - suspect it’s far from that

The US Open is “Open” - it’s available for anyone to enter and qualify , same with The Open - anyone from your local golf pro to the club champion can try to qualify - there is no membership as such , there hasn’t been any precedent set - they just continue as they always will do


They are exhibitions - players are getting paid vast sums just to turn up , the ones who have been a success on other tours are getting paid just to be there - regardless of how they perform , it is an exhibition

Come on, you can even see on this thread - on a forum that I would argue leans towards "traditional golf", that there has been a shift of opinion as more and more people voice their support for LIV.
If you go on some of the Facebook groups, there is huge support for LIV, same on Twitter - I've seen comments from You Tubers that have sizeable followings who went, they loved it.
I can't comment on where you are getting your public opinion from, as I don't know, but I can guarantee 100%, the views I've seen are massively in favour of the LIV series, and that covers groups of tens of thousand of people.

 

[Imurg]

Morikawa confirmed.....


He's staying on the PGA

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Come on, you can even see on this thread - on a forum that I would argue leans towards "traditional golf", that there has been a shift of opinion as more and more people voice their support for LIV.
If you go on some of the Facebook groups, there is huge support for LIV, same on Twitter - I've seen comments from You Tubers that have sizeable followings who went, they loved it.
I can't comment on where you are getting your public opinion from, as I don't know, but I can guarantee 100%, the views I've seen are massively in favour of the LIV series, and that covers groups of tens of thousand of people.

Even on this thread there isn’t the majority in favour of it all - just because people are loud and very vocal doesn’t mean majority

this is the thread on Twitter when Koepka was rumoured

https://twitter.com/x/status/1539200017629585410

certainly doesn’t lean towards LiV golf

There is the Facebook post

https://www.facebook.com/1937065073...L9tHJewLFqBD277uEyCyYGmS4TtH1bGWceb7F9ml/?d=n

again not leaning towards LIV

Multiple other groups I’m on don’t even talk about it

Even with NLU

https://twitter.com/x/status/1539247709739261952

Maybe it’s within your bubble but then I guess you will be looking at opinions that align with the LIV

But I think you are over estimating how many are in favour of what LIV are doing

Look at the crowds at the Hemel event - had to give away tickets and even then it wasn’t full - nowhere near

 

[pokerjoke]

Come on, you can even see on this thread - on a forum that I would argue leans towards "traditional golf", that there has been a shift of opinion as more and more people voice their support for LIV.
If you go on some of the Facebook groups, there is huge support for LIV, same on Twitter - I've seen comments from You Tubers that have sizeable followings who went, they loved it.
I can't comment on where you are getting your public opinion from, as I don't know, but I can guarantee 100%, the views I've seen are massively in favour of the LIV series, and that covers groups of tens of thousand of people.

Let’s be honest the first event was good for a first attempt.
Obviously now others have seen it in action and actually work,they want some of that action.
As it grows and it looks like it will grow,and rapidly by the looks of it more and more will want in.
Let’s hope though that players that dismissed it don’t get offered 100 of millions to join,they just have to because they need Liv,not the other way around.
I suspect though in the end there will be 3 tours all with ranking points,and the majors open to all.