Let's tax pensioners

[chrisd]

For the first couple of years my mortgage cost about 70% of my take home pay in 1975

 

[TheDiablo]

I'm willing to accept your data but you seem unwilling to accept that 18 years earlier life wasn't so sweet.

That aside, I have no beef with anyone that is willing to graft to get where they want to be, irrespective of whatever generation they're from. Its those that moan about not being able to x,y,z without even trying and then expect the state to do it for them. In this case, the state to take from one generation and give to another - sorry but I grafted 60-70 hour weeks, including getting evening work, I'm not happy giving to those who won't graft as I did.

Martin Lewis was on Question Time this week, in which this issue was also debated. He said pretty much as several on here have said, "its insulting to the current generation to question how hard it is to afford a house today." He also said, "it is possible to save for a deposit over a few years but the young need to start saving as soon as possible."

I've never said life was easy for past generations, I'm not naive enough to think it was and certainly think myself lucky to be born at a time with the world on my doorstep and the internet revolution. But every previous generation has managed to leave the opportunity for the the next generation as a whole to prosper, until now, which is my overriding point. And the government doesn't really care as Politics is self interest and short term - do enough to get reelected in 5 years time and thats about the crux of it.

As has been stated a few times, the suggestion is an extreme one and highly unlikely in reality, yet even they propose it is not simply given to anyone and everyone at 25, unlike the headlines would have you believe.

Anyway, I'm out from here. I've enjoyed the debate which is something I rarely have time for - tomorrow I go back to work following 2 weeks paternity leave and certainly wont have the time to continue back and forth.

I do find it very interesting that throughout the pages so many posters immediately revert to 'well I did this', 'my kids did that', 'my niece is Karen Brady' etc, which completely misses the point.

FWIW, my personal context around this is far from one of greed or sense of entitlement, but from being in the middle of the generation that graduated at the peak of the crash with £30k debt and when combined with inaccessible property prices seeing the shackles that can impose on bright, hard-working, motivated people. I'm a lucky one - before I turned 27 I had paid off my student loan and put a 25% deposit down on a 3 bed semi in Surrey that has since risen by £120k in less than 4 years through hard work through uni and since. I hope this shows that my position in the debate really isnt driven out of entitlement or jealousy.

 

[SocketRocket]

You do realise that you are just reinforcing stereotypes of old people by claiming that it is the socialists that are berating old people. And you also do realise that there was never a snowball's chance in hell of this becoming policy. It is just a headline grabbing extreme suggestion by a think tank or organisation to grab some publicity and get people talking about the subject. Which it has as seen by some very good posts on this thread. It's just another in a long line of utterly unworkable far out suggestions such as burn the poor, chop off the hands of anyone that went to Eton, make women prove they have been raped to get child benefit (actually scratch that, that did become policy).

Oh and my parents are old and they didn't live in abject poverty, have a very comfortable state pension, holiday several times a year and have been able to afford a very nice house that is far too big for them through the increase in value of property. But I will grant you they drive a Peugeot very slowly, so not everything's worked out well. I don't resent them for that, want to chuck them out of their house or wish to tax them 10 grand, but them's the facts.

Your parents sound very fortunate and good luck to them. I must have grown up very differently, I wont explain detail of what that means but please believe me that my childhood was a place where my family and the others in my neighborhood lived in relative poverty to the way people live today. I just dont get the current trend of suggesting baby Boomers are greedy and have somehow robbed the young of their life expectations. Does anyone actually believe that whilst growing up they had the intention of making their children's or Grandchildren's lives difficult. If Millennials grew up under the same conditions would they have made different choices?

 

[jim8flog]

I would find this a bit of a joke but they seem to be treating it seriously.

I am a retiree but no big company or private pension for me. What I have got I got because I squirelled as much as possible as I could througout my life.

The first house came fairly early in married life but mainly due to helpful parents. We di not have TV at all for the first two years of ownership. No cooker for the first 3 moths until we could save the deposit for the Hire Purchase of one, no washing machine until we paid off the loan for the cooker and just a very old donated fridge. No telephone until we bought our second house no car for the first 3 years of home ownership. We did not have any holidays for the first 5 years.

Can you imagine today's younger generation going through that just to own a home

Through a large part of our mortgage we paid interest rate between 8 and 13%.

We finally ended up mortgage free because I put the money to pay it off in to a endowment savings plan.

 

[SocketRocket]

I've never said life was easy for past generations, I'm not naive enough to think it was and certainly think myself lucky to be born at a time with the world on my doorstep and the internet revolution. But every previous generation has managed to leave the opportunity for the the next generation as a whole to prosper, until now, which is my overriding point. And the government doesn't really care as Politics is self interest and short term - do enough to get reelected in 5 years time and thats about the crux of it.

As has been stated a few times, the suggestion is an extreme one and highly unlikely in reality, yet even they propose it is not simply given to anyone and everyone at 25, unlike the headlines would have you believe.

Anyway, I'm out from here. I've enjoyed the debate which is something I rarely have time for - tomorrow I go back to work following 2 weeks paternity leave and certainly wont have the time to continue back and forth.

I do find it very interesting that throughout the pages so many posters immediately revert to 'well I did this', 'my kids did that', 'my niece is Karen Brady' etc, which completely misses the point.

FWIW, my personal context around this is far from one of greed or sense of entitlement, but from being in the middle of the generation that graduated at the peak of the crash with £30k debt and when combined with inaccessible property prices seeing the shackles that can impose on bright, hard-working, motivated people. I'm a lucky one - before I turned 27 I had paid off my student loan and put a 25% deposit down on a 3 bed semi in Surrey that has since risen by £120k in less than 4 years through hard work through uni and since. I hope this shows that my position in the debate really isnt driven out of entitlement or jealousy.

You do understand that your University Degree was subsidised by the older taxpayer who probably never had the opertunity of going to university; dont you? If it helps to ease your sense of loss you were not the only one to lose out by the financial crash, it hit baby boomers as well, my pension pot shrunk by £40K in the week I used it to purchase an annuity.

 

[Ross61]

The financial service industry and political class run by the baby boomer generation. Not to mention inidividuals reckless attitude to finance in that period - none of these decisions were made by the younger generation yet they are the ones facing the consequences. At least with Brexit we screwed ourselves by not voting enough!

And you're literally complaining about having wealth in the 2nd paragraph.

The reckless spending in that period were not typical, just the ones that were already rich. I bought my flat in 1983 at 21 years old. My friends thought I was mad, but I was determined. Interest rates were 12% and only went up in the following years. I knew what I was getting into, no I couldn’t really afford it. I had to go without heating virtually stop going out, had no holidays and did everything for myself. I furnished the flat by things from my bedroom at my parents and bought all my white goods second hand from the local paper + my 3 piece suite was one a work colleague was throwing away. Do I regret it? Not a chance. I’ve moved 4 times since. Each time moving to a larger house stretching myself financially but not as much as the purchase of my flat. during the dark days of conservatism and interest rates going up several times a year and even in one day, I got myself an evening job delivering pizzas.
You don’t need handouts you need graft and determination.
Anyone that was the wrong side of Thatcherism will tell you it was really scary.
As for the financial institutions they just got ridiculous. In 2007 I moved to my present house I applied for a mortgage of £110,000 which was 3 x my salary + 1 times overtime. ( my wife has rarely worked due to long standing health issues) I worked out that We could just about afford that. We went to the building society and asked for thar amount and was asked “are you sure that is all you want, the computer says you can afford £134,000” I turned down their kindly offer knowing they were talking rubbish.

 

[Mudball]

As a 70s child I am caught in the middle, so don’t get me started on mortgages... nearly half my pay goes directly to the mortgage overlords. We made a choice that a few bleak years are worth it to keep the roof on us rather than pay it as rent.

I don’t subscribe to this 10k handout either. If I got 10k when I was 25 it would end up in a bar in Benidorm rather than buying shares in Apple.

Some more
1) we talk about student debt. This is a real problem.. but I am told that students don’t repay it till they get to a certain threshold pay. It is also expected that many won’t repay this. So if your education helps you get a good job then do pay it back. Think of it as tax.

2) if the Govt is so concerned with homeownership then why not introduce tax relief on mortgage payments on primary residence.

3) multiple homeownership is not a societal issue but an investment issue. Prudent savers chose to invest in property because others areas are limited. Bank deposits hardly provide any returns while writing off entire mortgage as expense does. This was a clearly a negative impact of a tax policy which is the opposite of what I suggested in #2. In many ways the removal of tax incentives for BTL homes is finally a good idea

Every generation thinks that they are smarter and more entitled than their previous. In another 40 years these 25yr old 10k seekers will be on a similar forum berating the then 25 yr olds who never had it so easy while they only got 10k

 

[TheDiablo]

You do understand that your University Degree was subsidised by the older taxpayer who probably never had the opertunity of going to university; dont you? If it helps to ease your sense of loss you were not the only one to lose out by the financial crash, it hit baby boomers as well, my pension pot shrunk by £40K in the week I used it to purchase an annuity.

I know I said I was out, but it's people like you, with tit for tat selfish attitudes like yours that cause such large rifts between generations.

 

[bluewolf]

This thread is priceless. Full of bland stereotypes and misplaced ire. Fwiw, I bought my first house in 99 on a whim after having a drunken argument with a girlfriend. £2k deposit and a couch and TV to move in with. Spent the next 3 years gradually doing it up whilst supporting an alcohol dependency and a mild drug habit. Great times 👍👍👍

 

[SocketRocket]

I know I said I was out, but it's people like you, with tit for tat selfish attitudes like yours that cause such large rifts between generations.

You started it and seem rather bent on this tit for tat attitude. How very adult to label someone with a different view as selfish.

 

[TheDiablo]

You started it and seem rather bent on this tit for tat attitude. How very adult to label someone with a different view as selfish.

I honestly don't think you've read my posts properly, certainly not the one you responded to and if so I have no understanding why you went with such a personal and aggressive tone.

I've genuinely enjoyed debating the topic and each persons responses including those with complete opposite opinion and experience to my own. That is until your post, which should say something.l about you. As I said earlier I'm trying to put across an alternative view to those you're going to find on a golf forum.

Anyway, I'm done, have a good evening.

 

[clubchamp98]

Surely one age group can’t be responsible for another ones problems .
I am sixty and worked for everything I own.
Its policy makers and politicians who promise things they know can’t be delivered
that are the problem.
I was told I would get my state pension at 65 but they have renaiged on that.

Also giving 25 yr olds money may be ageist ( you never know these days) and may be challenged by every other age in the country.

Typical of this country charge young people to be educated then give them money to offset some of the debts.

All taxpayers cash of course!

 

[SocketRocket]

I honestly don't think you've read my posts properly, certainly not the one you responded to and if so I have no understanding why you went with such a personal and aggressive tone.

I've genuinely enjoyed debating the topic and each persons responses including those with complete opposite opinion and experience to my own. That is until your post, which should say something.l about you. As I said earlier I'm trying to put across an alternative view to those you're going to find on a golf forum.

Anyway, I'm done, have a good evening.

 

[Blue in Munich]

The financial service industry and political class run by the baby boomer generation. Not to mention inidividuals reckless attitude to finance in that period - none of these decisions were made by the younger generation yet they are the ones facing the consequences. At least with Brexit we screwed ourselves by not voting enough!

And you're literally complaining about having wealth in the 2nd paragraph.

And you're completely completely missing the point of the second paragraph; I'm not rolling in it.

I'm told by some that I'm rolling in it because I own a house that estate agents value at a ridiculous price. Apparently no-one can afford to buy property at this price, but if they could, to realise the value of the asset I have to get rid of it. As I now have nowhere to live, I have to spend that money buying another one, so I'm now poor again. Or I need to move miles away from my friends, family and the things that I do in order to retain the money that I've made. So I'm now cash rich but lifestyle poor.

But according to some I'm rolling in it because of the value that estate agents place on my house.

Do you not see that the wealth I'm supposed to have because I own a house doesn't actually exist?

 

[PhilTheFragger]

And you're completely completely missing the point of the second paragraph; I'm not rolling in it.

I'm told by some that I'm rolling in it because I own a house that estate agents value at a ridiculous price. Apparently no-one can afford to buy property at this price, but if they could, to realise the value of the asset I have to get rid of it. As I now have nowhere to live, I have to spend that money buying another one, so I'm now poor again. Or I need to move miles away from my friends, family and the things that I do in order to retain the money that I've made. So I'm now cash rich but lifestyle poor.

But according to some I'm rolling in it because of the value that estate agents place on my house.

Do you not see that the wealth I'm supposed to have because I own a house doesn't actually exist?

But all your problems can be easily solved by joining an equity release scheme, and you could also benefit when it becomes the next PPI scandal. 👍

And you get a free pen 👍👍

 

[bobmac]

But all your problems can be easily solved by joining an equity release scheme, and you could also benefit when it becomes the next PPI scandal. 

And you get a free pen 

So they are getting £10,000 AND a free pen?


They should move to Lincolnshire.......

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-65199037.html

 

[PhilTheFragger]

So they are getting £10,000 AND a free pen?


They should move to Lincolnshire.......

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-65199037.html

I went to Sleaford once..........it was closed 😂

 

[bobmac]

I went to Sleaford once..........it was closed 

That's only because you told them you were coming

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Chortle 👍

 

[spongebob59]

So they are getting £10,000 AND a free pen?


They should move to Lincolnshire.......

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-65199037.html

Any nice courses nearby 😜