Let's tax pensioners

[Hobbit]

Life changes though.. jobs change.. until 5 years ago the northern line was run on 1960s tech with signals , program machines which if they broke parts were bought on eBay they were that outdated. A timetable and a radio was all you had to run the system

Now there are no signals physically, up to 90 trains per hour in the peak. Can hold a train at a click of a mouse, can Emergancy break a train with 2 clicks. All kinds of advances. We wonder how we ever coped before but we did

Life evolves, and if you stand still for too long it will pass you

My aunt (in her 70s) once said to my uncle we need to get a computer because (her words) how her generation looked at people who couldn’t read or write that will be how you will be looked at if you can’t use a computer. She know owns and uses an iPad aswell.

There are so many advantages of tech they outweigh the disadvantages

Back on the topic part.. people shouldn’t be judged on what they spend their money on. End of the day it’s theirs

I lived at home until 27 all my mates said I should move out because I could. I decided to stay home because I wanted enough to move into a 3 bed semi with room for a loft extension.. because I can’t stand moving .. so that’s what I did

Can't disagree with any of that. A portion of what I spent my money on was the provision of a pension. Having Gordon Brown take a big chunk of it was painful. For a suggestion that I now need to be taxed further, having done the financial planning to receive a specific amount isn't funny.

The other aspects of the wider discussion, i.e. the affordability of housing; why is that my problem? Tax me more for the NHS? Yes.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Back on the topic part.. people shouldn’t be judged on what they spend their money on. End of the day it’s theirs

They should if they are moaning that they can't afford a house when they are spending hundreds/thousands each year on phone contracts/going out/holidays. £60 per month on a phone is £720 per year. A couple of foreign holidays per year can easily be £3000 in total. £50 a week going out is £2600 per year. Add those up and you've got over £6000 without cutting out anything else. If that's what people want to spend their money on then I've got no problem with it, unless they then start whining that it's impossible to save for a deposit to buy a house. It's about priorities and if the phone/holiday/night out is more important then obviously there isn't going to be as much money for them to buy a house.

 

[PJ87]

They should if they are moaning that they can't afford a house when they are spending hundreds/thousands each year on phone contracts/going out/holidays. £60 per month on a phone is £720 per year. A couple of foreign holidays per year can easily be £3000 in total. £50 a week going out is £2600 per year. Add those up and you've got over £6000 without cutting out anything else. If that's what people want to spend their money on then I've got no problem with it, unless they then start whining that it's impossible to save for a deposit to buy a house. It's about priorities and if the phone/holiday/night out is more important then obviously there isn't going to be as much money for them to buy a house.

I personally think renting should stop being so looked down upon by people. Many of my mates will never afford a mortgage but refuse to rent because there lining someone’s pocket .. how about the fact your making it on your own better that than never move out

Hobbit it’s depressing. I know full well my final salary pension will no way be final salary when I come to retire (at 60 I’m currently 31) so topping it up with avcs just to give me a big more incase .. or if by some miracle it’s fine happy days £££

 

[IanM]

Many countries giggle at our love of owner-occupation .......

 

[SocketRocket]

.

Mazlow's hierarchy of needs sums it up.

Yes that explains how we need to progressively move through levels that are satisfiers to allow us to reach higher levels of contentment. I remember it when studying Management at the OU. Another one that comes to mind when reflecting on this debate is 'Victor Vroom's Expectancy Theory' Where we need to have in place processes that an individual undergoes to make choices that motivate them to achieve their desired goals.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Yes that explains how we need to progressively move through levels that are satisfiers to allow us to reach higher levels of contentment. I remember it when studying Management at the OU. Another one that comes to mind when reflecting on this debate is 'Victor Vroom's Expectancy Theory' Where we need to have in place processes that an individual undergoes to make choices that motivate them to achieve their desired goals.

His model, whilst not been debunked, is now seen as simplistic and missing an important element which is the social connections. Even he later said that the model should not really be seen as a hierarchical pyramid structure and you do not need to completely fulfil one level to move to the other. Recent research on how the brain works is showing peoples needs are not really hierarchical but are interconnected.

His model kind of worked in a individualistic societies and in the workplace where there is a very defined manager/subordinate relationship where the manager mostly controls what their staff do. But in modern workplaces that is happening less and less and younger people today are using social connections (and social media is playing a big part in this) as a way of meeting their specific needs.

 

[chrisd]

Surely that includes all the old people who could be taxed again on their pensions?

My state pension takes most of my tax allowance, my own pension will be taxed as I draw it!

 

[Slab]

Many countries giggle at our love of owner-occupation .......

Yup and because of the fascination with it the UK lacks a effective rental market

 

[SocketRocket]

His model, whilst not been debunked, is now seen as simplistic and missing an important element which is the social connections. Even he later said that the model should not really be seen as a hierarchical pyramid structure and you do not need to completely fulfil one level to move to the other. Recent research on how the brain works is showing peoples needs are not really hierarchical but are interconnected.

His model kind of worked in a individualistic societies and in the workplace where there is a very defined manager/subordinate relationship where the manager mostly controls what their staff do. But in modern workplaces that is happening less and less and younger people today are using social connections (and social media is playing a big part in this) as a way of meeting their specific needs.

No such theory will be perfect in every case as people are not created the same. The point is that to reach certain levels of self satisfaction it is necessary to have other conditions in place. You are not going to be motivated to improve your self actuisation for example if you are homeless or starving. These theories are used as tools to allow Managers understand what may motivate their staff and conversely why they may not be motivated.

 

[SocketRocket]

My state pension takes most of my tax allowance, my own pension will be taxed as I draw it!

The standard state pension is around £6K a year, not exactly a beanfeast. The current tax free allowance is around £11K and this is always offset initially against state pension.

 

[jim8flog]

The standard state pension is around £6K a year, not exactly a beanfeast. The current tax free allowance is around £11K and this is always offset initially against state pension.

Current State Basic Pension is currently over £8.5K and this gets uprated depending upon personal circumstances. Mine uses up nearly all of my personal tax allowance

 

[jim8flog]

Thee was an interesting article on the news this morning which points out the plight of middle to later age private renters. They might be able to afford the rent whilst they are still working but will never be able to afford it when the stop working and live on a basic pension.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I recently found out that you can offset your spouses pension against your own if you are a higher tax payer.

Married couples tax allowance introduced by Cameron in 2015...…….I got about £500 back dated and it now saves me about £280 a year.

 

[chrisd]

Current State Basic Pension is currently over £8.5K and this gets uprated depending upon personal circumstances. Mine uses up nearly all of my personal tax allowance

My wife and I get close to £19k between us under the new universal benefit scheme.

 

[SocketRocket]

Current State Basic Pension is currently over £8,5K and this gets uprated depending upon personal circumstances. Mine uses up nearly all of my personal tax allowance

Current state pension is £125.95 per week. Don't know where you get £8.5K from. You can get more if you qualify for secondary pension but thats not the basic pension. You can also get more if you qualify for the new State Pension but most current pensioners don't get that.

 

[chrisd]

Current state pension is £125.95 per week. Don't know where you get £8.5K from. You can get more if you qualify for secondary pension but thats not the basic pension. You can also get more if you qualify for the new State Pension but most current pensioners don't get that.

We both qualify for the new state pension and it's worth £174 a week to me, we can't claim any other benefits because it's the new universal scheme but then I wouldn't get any others anyway.

 

[PJ87]

Have to admit I was shocked when I was younger and found out pensioners even paid tax considering they had paid tax all their life’s

However now I’m older can see it would be unsustainable to stop taxing them

Did find out something nice last night tho , the wife got her days for part time back from her school following her maternity leave and we have the days we wanted. She will pay £15 a month income tax as she dropping 2 days so whilst she doesn’t take home as much it’s not as bad as it could have been because of the old tax free. She gets her 2 days at home with little one aswell

 

[PJ87]

Read just now that 100% mortgages are making a return

If they are strict with them and don’t get stupid again this could help people a lot more than 10k and tax the pensioners more

However let’s be honest it’s the banks it won’t be done properly

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Read just now that 100% mortgages are making a return

If they are strict with them and don’t get stupid again this could help people a lot more than 10k and tax the pensioners more

However let’s be honest it’s the banks it won’t be done properly

100% mortgages are fine unless

1 they want to move house within 5 years
2 house prices stop rising
3 interest rates increase

Any of the above could result in negative equity, but as long as the repayments are met there isn’t a long term problem.

Problem comes if they split and there is negative equity, I’ve seen people persued well after the house has been sold and it isn’t pretty

 

[jim8flog]

Current state pension is £125.95 per week. Don't know where you get £8.5K from. You can get more if you qualify for secondary pension but thats not the basic pension. You can also get more if you qualify for the new State Pension but most current pensioners don't get that.

From the UK.gov pension website

What you'll get The full new State Pension is £164.35 per week.