Kuch 3rd time around!

[Deleted member 15344]

I like kuchar but this doesn't sit well with me.


It demeans the jobs all caddies do and is a pitiful amount to give someone when you pocket over a million dollars.

Surely the amount was agreed before the player started the Comp , the amount I suspect was determined by the level of caddy - he isn’t a top Tour caddy who earn the good money.

If the caddy wanted more money to do the job he should have asked for a higher fee plus a win bonus.

Don’t think it demeans it all when he has prob just earned more in 4 days than he would do in two month and also turned down a significant further amount

 

[garyinderry]

There is a big difference between an experienced Tour caddy and a bag-carrier at a resort.

This is reflected in the amount this guy is usually paid.

I am sure there was plenty of experienced tour caddies who failed to do a good job that week.

This guy was caddying at the pinnacle of our sport that week. that wasn't reflected in his pay.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

Whilst the $5k was I assume the agreed pay and the extra $15k was very generous. So I have no problems with that.

But sometimes as a person, you have to step up to the plate and I can not help to think given Kuchar had just won $1,296,000, Kuchar would have been the better person and seen as that if he had offered the guy say £50,000 or maybe more(3.8% and Kuchar would still have received $1,246,000). That kind of extra money to the caddie is fairly life changing but to Kuchar probably not anything like life changing.

Better person and all that.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

I am sure there was plenty of experienced tour caddies who failed to do a good job that week.

This guy was caddying at the pinnacle of our sport that week. that wasn't reflected in his pay.

Did he do yardages, advise on club and shot selection? Did he give psychological support?

Unless Kuchar's Spanish is better than El Tucan's self admitted poor English I would think it unlikely that he did much more than "turn up, keep up, and shut up".

 

[HomerJSimpson]

If he turned down $15k then I imagine it was set as a full and final settlement and so that would be the end of it. By turning it down I suspect he thinks he can get more somewhere down the line.

I don't think this bloke will be getting a bag next time the tournament goes there.

This is how I read it. Paid 5k originally, Kuchar and management saw the negativity after the event and have come back with 15k as a full and final payment. It's far more than he'd usually get and while given the money Kuchar won perhaps still on the low side, is an additional payment the caddy hadn't originally agreed with Kuchar and signed up to. He may have people in his ear to hold out for more but by doing so he risks losing any public sympathy built up. Kuchar and his management may up the offer a little but I think any chance fo 50k is wishful thinking

 

[larmen]

I don’t see why a guy carrying a bag for one weekend should be getting more than the guy carrying it the other 51 weeks, working in the range with the pro, ...

The 10% of winning seems to me to be that high because in no week you are guaranteed a cheque but are expected to turn up. It covers all the weeks your pro doesn’t win anything as well.

 

[dronfield]

Whilst the $5k was I assume the agreed pay and the extra $15k was very generous. So I have no problems with that.

But sometimes as a person, you have to step up to the plate and I can not help to think given Kuchar had just won $1,296,000, Kuchar would have been the better person and seen as that if he had offered the guy say £50,000 or maybe more(3.8% and Kuchar would still have received $1,246,000). That kind of extra money to the caddie is fairly life changing but to Kuchar probably not anything like life changing.

Better person and all that.

Agree 100%. Regardless of fact that Kuchar paid caddie the pre agreed wage, and therefore honoured their agreement, it would have been great if on the back of the win he had made a gesture of goodwill additional payment to the caddie.

Would have created some positive press for golf, and shown Kuchar in a good light - even if he had given him a further £50k (not saying it needed to be that much), that would still have been an insignificant sum against his net worth and money earned that week.

Rich

 

[Dasit]

Another non story.

I would rather Kuchar gave $15k to charity than this Mexican bag carrier.


If the caddy wants a better deal they need to arrange it beforehand. Don't be a b**** after, the deal is the deal.

 

[Jacko_G]

Another non story.

I would rather Kuchar gave $15k to charity than this Mexican bag carrier.


If the caddy wants a better deal they need to arrange it beforehand. Don't be a b**** after, the deal is the deal.

Hardly a non story it's being talked about the world over in golf circles, the press have become involved, they have now hunted down the caddy and got his story.

That's not a non story and it reflects badly on Kuch and I still can't fathomed out why he hasn't simply rectified the decision after the fall out. Negative press easily turned into positive.

 

[Slab]

Lots of numbers flying round but from what I gather;

The caddy earns $100 on typical day, $200 on a v good day
Kuchar agreed a fee of $3000 with caddy for 5 days plus unspecified bonus (which turned out to be $2000)
Caddy not chuffed with 5k and mailed MK's manager and another $15000 was offered and caddy declined
Caddy sent another couple of mails looking to get $45000 bonus but manager says that's it

My guess, Kuchar probably always intended on a 2k bonus and just didn't change that after the unexpected win
Offering an extra 15k was the right thing but should of happened sooner
Caddy should have accepted the additional 15k since neither of them specified the bonus beforehand

 

[garyinderry]

Just because someone wasn't in a position to negotiate a better deal doesn't make the deal right.

This guy was hardly able to turn down whatever deal kuchar offers him in the first place. There would be a mile long queue waiting behind him.


5k is a lot more than the normal fee for carrying a bag.

Only thing is, he is carrying a bag on the PGA tour and 5k is pittance to what the winning caddy picks up.

He shouldn't pick up the full 10% but he deserves alot more than he got.


Would have alot of respect for the caddy if he doesn't seek any more money after telling kuchar to stick his 15k.

 

[Slab]

Just because someone wasn't in a position to negotiate a better deal doesn't make the deal right.

This guy was hardly able to turn down whatever deal kuchar offers him in the first place. There would be a mile long queue waiting behind him.


5k is a lot more than the normal fee for carrying a bag.

Only thing is, he is carrying a bag on the PGA tour and 5k is pittance to what the winning caddy picks up.

He shouldn't pick up the full 10% but he deserves alot more than he got.


Would have alot of respect for the caddy if he doesn't seek any more money after telling kuchar to stick his 15k.

Not sure on how valid but I did read (think it was golf channel) that $3k is actually the going rate for using a local caddy for PGA golfers (& this caddy was ok with it too)

The gripe is solely about the bonus. As you say he probably deserved more than 2k but I too wonder if he's morally turned down 15k or whether he just wants more

 

[Jacko_G]

For me this is more a moral dilemma now than the money.

From what I have read elsewhere even his fellow professionals are astounded by how Kuch has handled this. Kuch is also on record saying without doubt the local guy helped him win. Therefore what's the issue with paying him his dues when you have just won over a million dollars and are already a multi millionaire?

Kuch went into the tournament with zero form. Won it, relied on the local guy then decides that his $5k is enough and sod him.

Why not just pay the local guy what he would pay his normal caddy, thank him sincerely, praise him in the winners speech and you are an all round good guy?

People are quick to cast up "greed" on behalf of the caddy. Isn't Kuch being just as greedy keeping the dosh and electing not to pay the going rate? Here we are 3 or 4 months down the line from when the story first broke and Kuch is still getting flak due to his "poor decision" and possibly "greed".

I know as a sponsor I wouldn't be impressed. Especially when he tries to live off the "nice guy persona".

 

[Deleted member 15344]

For me this is more a moral dilemma now than the money.

From what I have read elsewhere even his fellow professionals are astounded by how Kuch has handled this. Kuch is also on record saying without doubt the local guy helped him win. Therefore what's the issue with paying him his dues when you have just won over a million dollars and are already a multi millionaire?

Kuch went into the tournament with zero form. Won it, relied on the local guy then decides that his $5k is enough and sod him.

Why not just pay the local guy what he would pay his normal caddy, thank him sincerely, praise him in the winners speech and you are an all round good guy?

People are quick to cast up "greed" on behalf of the caddy. Isn't Kuch being just as greedy keeping the dosh and electing not to pay the going rate? Here we are 3 or 4 months down the line from when the story first broke and Kuch is still getting flak due to his "poor decision" and possibly "greed".

I know as a sponsor I wouldn't be impressed. Especially when he tries to live off the "nice guy persona".

Because he didn’t do what his normal caddy would do - he pretty much just carried the bag and for that he earned a significant amount more money than he would do normally - imagine how those tour caddies who travel all over the world working day in day out for their pro - mapping courses being away from family and then a guy who just carries the bag gets the same level of reward as them ?!

He was given a fee for 4 days bag carrying that would he normally earned in a month - was then offered a significant bonus. Having spoken to a caddy who used to be on the tour the fee that Kuchar agreed isn’t too far off what local bag carrying caddies get - the pro then gives a tip etc etc depending on what the caddy gave the pro - this guy couldn’t speak English so what was he going to do more than just carry the back

 

[need_my_wedge]

i can only assume that there was an agreed split or extra fee, i cant imagine anyone turning down 15k unless they actually had a contract worth more!

Or unless there's someone like a lawyer whispering in his ear about how much he "could" get if he pushes hard enough.

 

[Grant85]

I do think this has been hugely blown out of proportion.

10% is certainly the 'accepted' bonus rate for a tour caddie, who is on the road with someone 25 or 30 weeks of the year. Doing research, going to range sessions, practice rounds etc etc.
I don't think anyone would accept that for a local caddie doing a one off event in his home town.

Now we don't know what role El Tucan had in the event with Kuchar.
Was he just a bag carrier?
Was he doing yardages?
Was he reading putts or giving lines?
Did he scout the course and pin positions on the Tuesday / Wednesday?
Did he know the 'likely' pin positions from previous events?

Ultimately did it really make a big difference? Would you or I, in the same position have altered the result of the event? Probably not.

Also - remember there would have been a dozen guys that would have carried Kuch's bag for $1,000, never mind $5,000.

And we also don't know the negotiation? Did he offer a flat fee of $5,000 or $200 a day with a bonus for a top 10, top 5, win etc ?

If the guy was offered another $15k and knocked it back out of bloody mindedness, in order to harbour a grievance, then hell mend him.

 

[Grant85]

Also, lets not remember the guy is moaning about now earning $20,000 for a weeks work.

Who is the bad guy now?

The whole thing is classless on both sides. Yes, Kuch could have dropped the guy another few quid and no one would ever have said anything, but the local caddie is probably believing the hype a bit too much about $50k or $100k being 'fair' for 5 days work.

 

[Orikoru]

The caddy has had some really poor advice from somebody. He should have taken the extra 15k and let that be an end to it. He's now painted himself as an unsavoury type trying to use the media to get himself a big payday. His reputation has dropped through the floor.

 

[JPLon]

Lots of numbers flying round but from what I gather;

My guess, Kuchar probably always intended on a 2k bonus and just didn't change that after the unexpected win
Offering an extra 15k was the right thing but should of happened sooner
Caddy should have accepted the additional 15k since neither of them specified the bonus beforehand

I think this is spot on. In the interview with the caddy he says Kuch gave him an envelope with $5k cash in it...I doubt he nipped off to an ATM before lifting the trophy. He'll have had this sorted earlier in the week probably, $3k salary and a nice little $2k bonus. Can't blame Kuch if he got wrapped up in the moment, didn't expect to win, highly likely did it all himself (caddy doesn't seem to speak much English). Probably didn't think of the caddy again really and enjoyed the win and a big celebration.

However, when the dust settled and the big cheque landed in his account he should at some point have thought..hang on that $2k is actually a lousy bonus considering I won the thing. He's handled it poorly since and now its snowballed a bit.

$15k on top of the $5k although not particularly generous is also not derisory. He should have taken it and all moved on. I presume he would have got Kuch's bag again each year and another $5k a week as long as he's playing. Don't think i'd go near this fella with a barge pole if I were a tour player heading there now.

Bit of a sad story all round really. It should have been a brilliant memorable day in each of their lives and as it is they probably both have a sour taste.

 

[Scozzy]

Tour Pro " you get 5k for 4 days work,all you need to do is keep up and shut up"

Me "hold my beer"