JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
Forum golf at it's best
How many good shots do you hit during a round?
- Thread starter CrapHacker
- Start date
Forum golf at it's best
Surely by definition a good "shot" must be measured in relation to target. If you aim a 4w at a green and it rolls through the back then it's a good swing and contact, yes, but a "bad" shot because the target was missed.
On that measure are tee shots really "shots" at all as the aim is simply to hit the fairway (unless deliberately selecting a particular landing area)? - the only great ability coming from being able to hit it far and on the fairway (poking it 200 yards up the middle is hardly testing).
Surely the best "shots" are the approaches to the green - getting close to the pin - normally only doable with a consistent accurate and powerful swing.
So do you hit GIR, was it close to the pin, was it the contact/ball flight you intended?
On that measure are tee shots really "shots" at all as the aim is simply to hit the fairway (unless deliberately selecting a particular landing area)? - the only great ability coming from being able to hit it far and on the fairway (poking it 200 yards up the middle is hardly testing).
Surely the best "shots" are the approaches to the green - getting close to the pin - normally only doable with a consistent accurate and powerful swing.
So do you hit GIR, was it close to the pin, was it the contact/ball flight you intended?
You are presumably a young buck with natural hand eye coordination, and the ambition to become a good to great player.
I am a 47 year fat old fart who can hardly swing the club round his neck.
I don't think we should be using the same definition of a good shot as each other.
However, if you use your definition, what does that say about you as a golfer, and your attitude to teh game itself?
The reason I asked the question was to see where and how people get their enjoyment from the game.
Many people think they play a high % of good shots, and I can see how enjoyable the game must be to them. But others, like me, perceive a very small percentage of shots as being good, so why do we enjoy the game?
Are we all weird, and look for enjoyment in our own, and each other's failure?
Or is the game so good, so great, that it transcends actual ability, and the game itself is what makes us good, not our individual skillsets when we attempt to hack our way round?
The enjoyment maybe isn't in hitting a once in a blue moon great shot, but possibly in the company of others, the scenery perchance, or even the occassional sighting of a roe deer.
CrapHacker - you are right about me. My biggest enjoyment from the game at the moment is my desire and ability to improve. It's all new to me. Will I enjoy it as much if I think I've plateaud? I don't think I will. But I suppose we all take enjoyment from the game one way or another. I have no urge to compete (too long in the tooth for that) and would gladly play just to reach my target.
If I do no longer enjoy then at least I will have added something to the golf community with the thousands spent on club fees, pro lessons, my local golf shop, books, videos, internet subscriptions, and several Ping employees kept in employment!
Having said all that I did have a smile on my face today having duffed an iron shot - no one ahead of us, no one behind, the weather dry, fresh air.
If I do no longer enjoy then at least I will have added something to the golf community with the thousands spent on club fees, pro lessons, my local golf shop, books, videos, internet subscriptions, and several Ping employees kept in employment!
Having said all that I did have a smile on my face today having duffed an iron shot - no one ahead of us, no one behind, the weather dry, fresh air.
HawkeyeMS
Ryder Cup Winner
I don't think you can judge a shot purely by it's finishing position, I've hit plenty of shots that ended up close to the pin but weren't good shots. We all know the sort, slight thins, lucky kicks off the side of bunkers, that kind of thing. I've also hit some good shots that didn't end up anywhere near the pin because I underclubbed or got a bad bounce.
A good shot is a very personal thing and I think we have to be realistic when we define our own good shots. For me, if I'm hitting a wedge from 90yds and I hit it close, it's because I meant to, if I put it 20ft past the flag it's a bad shot. However, from 190yds with a 3-iron my tolerances are greater, all I'm trying to do is hit it straight and well and onto the green. If it ends up 2ft away then great, that's a good result but if it runs through to the fringe it can still be an equally good shot.
A good shot is a very personal thing and I think we have to be realistic when we define our own good shots. For me, if I'm hitting a wedge from 90yds and I hit it close, it's because I meant to, if I put it 20ft past the flag it's a bad shot. However, from 190yds with a 3-iron my tolerances are greater, all I'm trying to do is hit it straight and well and onto the green. If it ends up 2ft away then great, that's a good result but if it runs through to the fringe it can still be an equally good shot.
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
I'm with Murph here. For me if I've picked a club, executed perfectly and made proper contact then it is a good shot. If I get a bad bounce, the wind drops etc then I feel a tad cheated but move on and try and play the next shot as well.
I guess I probably hit 5 proper shots. I might hit another 10 or so where the contact was good but they were directionally off and maybe a few where the contact wasn't pure but I got away with it. Ironically I tend to worry more about hitting "good" shots in solo and roll up games than in a competition where I don't really care how I get the job done as long as I can post a good number
RGDave
Money List Winner
Less than 10?
Then again, my bad ones might be a beginners dream and my good ones a pros nightmare.
Then again, my bad ones might be a beginners dream and my good ones a pros nightmare.
Deeeeeeeeeeeep
RGDave
Money List Winner
Deeeeeeeeeeeep
You are kind.
Fyldewhite
Tour Winner
In terms of full shots (ie at our course I have 18 tee shots and 14 second shots, total 32) I'd be having a good game if I hit half a dozen really good shots which I'd define as out of the middle, correct club selection and pretty much as I visualised the shot.
That said, good scoring is determined not by how good your good shots are but by how bad your bad ones are. I've scored well by hitting very few good shots but 90% of them 90% good if you get my drift. Another factor is hwere the 10% of bad shots come in. Hit them on the "right" holes and you can still make birdie. Hit them at the danger points and they are card wreckers.
All a lottery really
That said, good scoring is determined not by how good your good shots are but by how bad your bad ones are. I've scored well by hitting very few good shots but 90% of them 90% good if you get my drift. Another factor is hwere the 10% of bad shots come in. Hit them on the "right" holes and you can still make birdie. Hit them at the danger points and they are card wreckers.
All a lottery really
EZprophet
Head Pro
I personally dont care about the way I strike the ball, I count a good shot as a good result.
One of the things to aim for to improve at golf is find a swing/stroke that means your bad strikes actually end up okay or sometimes even good. If I hit one way off the toe and it ends up 4 feet from the hole, that to me is a good shot. If I didnt count mishits as good shots (even slight ones), then I would struggle to find more than one or two good shots per round.
As to how many good ones I hit per round I have no idea. I regularly leave a round thinking Ive hit no more than 2 or 3 good iron shots though...
One of the things to aim for to improve at golf is find a swing/stroke that means your bad strikes actually end up okay or sometimes even good. If I hit one way off the toe and it ends up 4 feet from the hole, that to me is a good shot. If I didnt count mishits as good shots (even slight ones), then I would struggle to find more than one or two good shots per round.
As to how many good ones I hit per round I have no idea. I regularly leave a round thinking Ive hit no more than 2 or 3 good iron shots though...
EZprophet
Head Pro
But you didn't play the right shot... the shot that was required to get the ball close to the hole...
If I was faced with a 30 yard greenside shot over a bunker from the rough with little green to work with that required a delicate flop shot to get it close to the hole, and all of a sudden I decide to pull out my driver and give it a rip, it doesnt matter how sweetly I strike it, even if I carryed it 450 yds with a baby draw, its still a crap golf shot!!
Region3
Ryder Cup Winner
I think my definition of a good shot must differ to a lot of replies so far.
In the same way that Rotella says if you putt the ball on the line you intended, at the pace you wanted, and it doesn't go in, you hit a good putt, I think if I hit an iron on the line I want and strike it well, that to me is a good shot. If it doesn't stop and runs through the back, or comes up short because I misjudged the wind then as far as I'm concerned I hit a good shot and the error (if any) was in deciding on the shot to play.
With that in mind, my round today I had :
Tee shots
Horrible 4
OK 9
Good 2
Approach shots
Horrible 4
OK 9
Good 5
I know that's 19 approach shots. I hit 2 to a par 3 after an OOB
In the same way that Rotella says if you putt the ball on the line you intended, at the pace you wanted, and it doesn't go in, you hit a good putt, I think if I hit an iron on the line I want and strike it well, that to me is a good shot. If it doesn't stop and runs through the back, or comes up short because I misjudged the wind then as far as I'm concerned I hit a good shot and the error (if any) was in deciding on the shot to play.
With that in mind, my round today I had :
Tee shots
Horrible 4
OK 9
Good 2
Approach shots
Horrible 4
OK 9
Good 5
I know that's 19 approach shots. I hit 2 to a par 3 after an OOB
Ok, so how do you define 'the right shot that was required to get teh ball to the hole'
Given that you have to make that decision before you play the shot, how do you decide?
Still using a 200 yard shot to the green, and using your definition in reverse, let's say a perfectly struck 9I will never reach, therefore can not be described as a good shot ( unless there is a concious decision to lay up in front of some hazard ) because it cannot ever get close.
For any club selection, there has to be an acceptance that, for most people, they hit their irons an average distance for any given club - there will be cleaner strikes going a tad further, and very slight mishits not quite reaching. Allowing for the wind, the right choice is, say, the 4W.
Now lets look some different scenarios:
1) The strike is pure, but the wind drops, so the ball goes long.
2) The strike is pure, but the wind increases, so the ball ends up close to the pin.
3) The strike is impure, but the wind drops so the ball ends up close.
Are you suggesting that shots 2) & 3) are both good shots, even though they are both relying on luck to get close to the flag? And that 1) is a poor shot even though it was hit exactly as well as shot number 2)
EZprophet
Head Pro
Ok, so how do you define 'the right shot that was required to get teh ball to the hole'
Given that you have to make that decision before you play the shot, how do you decide?
Still using a 200 yard shot to the green, and using your definition in reverse, let's say a perfectly struck 9I will never reach, therefore can not be described as a good shot ( unless there is a concious decision to lay up in front of some hazard ) because it cannot ever get close.
For any club selection, there has to be an acceptance that, for most people, they hit their irons an average distance for any given club - there will be cleaner strikes going a tad further, and very slight mishits not quite reaching. Allowing for the wind, the right choice is, say, the 4W.
Now lets look some different scenarios:
1) The strike is pure, but the wind drops, so the ball goes long.
2) The strike is pure, but the wind increases, so the ball ends up close to the pin.
3) The strike is impure, but the wind drops so the ball ends up close.
Are you suggesting that shots 2) & 3) are both good shots, even though they are both relying on luck to get close to the flag? And that 1) is a poor shot even though it was hit exactly as well as shot number 2)
Absolutely yes.
You call it luck but the fact is that in shot 2 you've hit the ball well and judged the shot perfectly, and you've got a good result.
In shot 3 you've also judged it perfectly, as if you had struck it pure, you would be through the green.
And shot one, you've struck it purely when you shouldnt of, as the wind required you to hit a less solid shot.
Now Im obviously not saying that its possible to predict how the wind is going to randomly change, but to be honest thats completely irelevant to my point.
My point is that there is only one way to judge a good shot, and that is by its result.
In that same example, say that the wind was constantly blowing 30mph in our face from 200 with the 4 wood and our golfer strikes it absolutely perfect, can't strike it better, but because of the wind, he ends up 20 yards short of the green.
He then hits another shot, but completely thins it at a very low trajectory, but because of this trajectory, its not affected by the wind and sails up to the green 3 feet from the pin... The thin is the good shot and the pure strike is the bad one, simply because the thin is what was necessary to get a good result out of the shot. A pure strike in that situation is completely useless, as it leaves you 20 yards short of the green...
I realise that this sounds a bit silly and it is an extreme example, but it is true simply because judging what you need to do with a shot, whether consciously or unconsciously, is a huge part of playing a good golf shot.
Look at it this way, lets say you have an 8 iron to the green from the fairway, you strike it and it felt pretty good, but far from ideal, like an 7/10 strike. You look down at the face of the club and theres a grass ball mark about a centemeter towards the heel of the face, but very near the sweetspot. The ball sails through the air, dead straight, lands, takes one hop and trickles into the hole.... is that a perfect shot by your definitions?
What about if the strike is 2 centemeter towards the toe instead, and felt like a 5/10 strike and it goes in?
Which is a better shot, one that feels like a 9/10 strike and is 2 milimeters away from the sweetspot that goes in the hole, or one that is exactly on the sweetspot, feels like a 10/10 strike, but flys the green?
I cant believe Im writing this at 3.25am on a Wednesday.... I need to get some sleep, and a life while Im at it...
HawkeyeMS
Ryder Cup Winner
That makes no sense at all, what you're suggesting is that the player in shot 3 somehow intended to mishit it exactly the right amount to get close to the hole on the off chance the wind might drop just enough? In no way can that be defined as a good shot, good result yes but good shot? Not in my book. A good shot has to be in relation to what you are trying to do, in shot 3 the player had selected his club based on the wind, if the wind had stayed and it was hit correctly and got close it's a good shot but in this case the player neither executed the shot properly and got a bit of luck with the wind, I know if that were me I'd class that as an average shot that got lucky, not a good one
RGDave
Money List Winner
Can I change my answer. Yesterday I thought 10.
Today, after playing, I can reveal the real answer is probably 14-18 depending on my final score.
14-18 out of about 36 full shots.
around max 50% or less then.
Today, after playing, I can reveal the real answer is probably 14-18 depending on my final score.
14-18 out of about 36 full shots.
around max 50% or less then.
billyg
Q-School Graduate
Sorry to drag up something from the back catalogue
A very interesting thread and one of the best questions I've ever heard asked or indeed phrased as above with a fakir's bed of nails hit firmly on the head.
I wonder just how many of us actually ask ourselves such deep questions about our engagement with the game (because at my level it's a game and not a sport)
You've certainly got me thinking though.
I suppose one way of thinking about it is to picture my perfect round.
The conditions
Good company
The weather would be good too
We would make reasonable speed and progress but not feel like we were a wagon in a constantly shunting goods train with irritating jabs from the next carriage to speed up or blocked from in front
In good health
As far as the game
To hit every drive and iron shot pure ,in the intended direction and getting it within a reasonable distance of my target
To play to a respectable and comfortable 14-18 over
To lag every long putt to within bin lid distance of the hole and to never flub or skull a chip again
Well, this is clearly a dream at the moment but for me then the definition of a good shot would be to pure the clubs in the right line. I honestly think I would enjoy the game so much more. I'm sick of all the bad contacts. Personally I gain no satisfaction in skulling a ball to within 3 foot of the pin or getting a jammy Gunnell. It's not what the clubs are designed for.
Puring a club is like a hit of endorphines to me and what drew me into the game many years ago and will probably keep luring me back. I really envy players that can 'sweet' an iron or wood most of the time.
I would honestly say that I would rather have a higher score and pure them more (the loss being down to misjudgement of distance) than a lower score but come away feeling like Ive been striking the ball through long grass all day.
billyg
