Have you ever played with a known handicap cheat?

[Crow]

I've said before that "my" club does not seem to have too much of this type of problem. But, that is not what I see reported on here.

I don't think many, if any clubs, do in reality.

It would be nice to see some proof showing wins in each handicap range compared to the number of golfers in each range.
That would highlight if a particular handicap were winning more than their fair share.

 

[Barking_Mad]

I don't play in comps (off 12.5) but fwiw I recently shot 41 (par 35) for the front 9, which included a solitary 9 on a par 4. Ended up shooting an 89 with 4 birdies and just 3 pars. It was a wild ride ?

I'm sure there's plenty of cheats, but my point being that with so many rounds played each week there's also going to be some crazy genuine rounds in there.

 

[C7usk]

I don't play in comps (off 12.5) but fwiw I recently shot 41 (par 35) for the front 9, which included a solitary 9 on a par 4. Ended up shooting an 89 with 4 birdies and just 3 pars. It was a wild ride ?

I'm sure there's plenty of cheats, but my point being that with so many rounds played each week there's also going to be some crazy genuine rounds in there.

Totally agree... Its the joys /despair of being mid handicapper... Recently started hitting a bit of form... Then shoved in a ton plus on sat....

 

[Bdill93]

You must be so disappointed.

Kindly update me as I may have missed the next instalment .What has happened in your singles match, probably the best read on here for some time

Lost in round 3 on 19th!!

 

[Bdill93]

It's matchplay - suck it up.

My partner and I were overwhelming favourites - on paper - to win a round of our Seniors Pairs knockout. Both opponents played out of their skins and took it to extra holes. On the 170-yard par 3 2nd, one of them stuffed his tee shot to 5 feet from the pin, sunk the putt and that was that. His handicap was in the low 30s with a very substantial regular playing history.

That's matchplay.

I’d suck it up if one guy hadn’t have submitted 3 rounds and 3 rounds only since he joined the club over a year ago. Got his initial HC and never submitted another card. He’s off 23 and shot +1 on the back 9…. When I was off 23 I’d never have done that. It’s bull.

 

[YandaB]

I don't think many, if any clubs, do in reality.

It would be nice to see some proof showing wins in each handicap range compared to the number of golfers in each range.
That would highlight if a particular handicap were winning more than their fair share.

Here's the data from my club, it all looks reasonable, perhaps a slight bias against those in the 6-10 group, certainly not for the truly low cappers:

 

[C7usk]

Not sure if this goes on at other clubs but ours 'pays out' for the scratch score in all comps as well as handicap score. So at least the low hcps have a good chance of getting some funds.... In fact I think a few of them do pretty well.

 

[Pants]

So at least the low hcps have a good chance of getting some funds.... In fact I think a few of them do pretty well.

I would guess that they take more than their "fair share" of the 2's sweep.

 

[C7usk]

I would guess that they take more than their "fair share" of the 2's sweep.

The scratch winner gets nearly as much as the net winner. Last 2 sat sweeps the same guy won so almost 60 bucks. Which I don't grudge as they have a slim chance of winning with the net score. You pretty much need 41pts to have a sniff of winning... More than likely 43 or so..

 

[Swango1980]

The scratch winner gets nearly as much as the net winner. Last 2 sat sweeps the same guy won so almost 60 bucks. Which I don't grudge as they have a slim chance of winning with the net score. You pretty much need 41pts to have a sniff of winning... More than likely 43 or so..

Maybe they have less chance of winning the net score, but they'd still have a chance. Whereas I'd imagine there are only a handful of players capable of winning the gross score, and many having absolutely zero chance. So, the lowest handicappers(s) in the field probably have a much better chance of winning the gross prize, than any individual player has of winning the net prize.

So, if I was a low handicapper, I'd be delighted if the prize money for the lowest gross was similar to lowest nett. For any player not capable of winning the gross at all, most of the field, they'd be forgiven for being a little annoyed that a significant proportion of their entry fee is being paid out to the low handicappers. It would be interesting to total up all prize money given out over the year, combining all gross and nett prizes, and see how much of those funds were given back to the lower handicappers. Then compare that to the handicap proportions making up the typical field.

 

[C7usk]

Maybe they have less chance of winning the net score, but they'd still have a chance. Whereas I'd imagine there are only a handful of players capable of winning the gross score, and many having absolutely zero chance. So, the lowest handicappers(s) in the field probably have a much better chance of winning the gross prize, than any individual player has of winning the net prize.

So, if I was a low handicapper, I'd be delighted if the prize money for the lowest gross was similar to lowest nett. For any player not capable of winning the gross at all, most of the field, they'd be forgiven for being a little annoyed that a significant proportion of their entry fee is being paid out to the low handicappers. It would be interesting to total up all prize money given out over the year, combining all gross and nett prizes, and see how much of those funds were given back to the lower handicappers. Then compare that to the handicap proportions making up the typical field.

Too true swango... Suppose they are getting two goes at the pot in reality... The perks of being a good golfer at my course... I'll keep an eye out for the accounts when they come out...

 

[jim8flog]

I play in a couple of roll ups which also has one particular person in who we have all known for around 20-30 years. He is an absolute handicap protector, has been known to deliberately throw the last couple of holes if he thinks he is not going to win the kitty, fairly regularly shots 40-45 points, he thinks playing to his handicap is a poor round. He has a current handicap of 32.7 yet only a few years ago was 16.

The organiser of an away day comp has told him that next year there will be a handicap limit (also partly because several of the players without official handicaps have been coming in with 40+ points) the player turned round and said he would not be going then. Clearly to him winning the money is more important than a day out with mates.

 

[Swango1980]

I play in a couple of roll ups which also has one particular person in who we have all known for around 20-30 years. He is an absolute handicap protector, has been known to deliberately throw the last couple of holes if he thinks he is not going to win the kitty, fairly regularly shots 40-45 points, he thinks playing to his handicap is a poor round. He has a current handicap of 34.7 yet only a few years ago was 16.

The organiser of an away day comp has told him that next year there will be a handicap limit (also partly because several of the players without official handicaps have been coming in with 40+ points) the player turned round and said he would not be going then. Clearly to him winning the money is more important than a day out with mates.

How did his handicap increase by 18.7 in a few years?

 

[Deleted member 3432]

I play in a couple of roll ups which also has one particular person in who we have all known for around 20-30 years. He is an absolute handicap protector, has been known to deliberately throw the last couple of holes if he thinks he is not going to win the kitty, fairly regularly shots 40-45 points, he thinks playing to his handicap is a poor round. He has a current handicap of 34.7 yet only a few years ago was 16.

The organiser of an away day comp has told him that next year there will be a handicap limit (also partly because several of the players without official handicaps have been coming in with 40+ points) the player turned round and said he would not be going then. Clearly to him winning the money is more important than a day out with mates.

Why do you play in a roll up that tolerates this?

I'd be playing with people who have some integrity.

 

[jim8flog]

How did his handicap increase by 18.7 in a few years?

Something a bit weird there.

These days I can only check his WHS record which oddly shows him as not receiving an initial WHS handicap of 24.6 until June 2018 also my typo, should read 32.7.
From memory I think he had a period where he left the club so he probably re-joined about then.

 

[evemccc]

I play in a couple of roll ups which also has one particular person in who we have all known for around 20-30 years. He is an absolute handicap protector, has been known to deliberately throw the last couple of holes if he thinks he is not going to win the kitty, fairly regularly shots 40-45 points, he thinks playing to his handicap is a poor round. He has a current handicap of 32.7 yet only a few years ago was 16.

The organiser of an away day comp has told him that next year there will be a handicap limit (also partly because several of the players without official handicaps have been coming in with 40+ points) the player turned round and said he would not be going then. Clearly to him winning the money is more important than a day out with mates.

You really do meet all sorts in golf clubs (and life in general..) don’t you?
People like that is why my favourite way of playing golf is twilight solo millionaires golf

 

[3offTheTee]

Maybe they have less chance of winning the net score, but they'd still have a chance. Whereas I'd imagine there are only a handful of players capable of winning the gross score, and many having absolutely zero chance. So, the lowest handicappers(s) in the field probably have a much better chance of winning the gross prize, than any individual player has of winning the net prize.

So, if I was a low handicapper, I'd be delighted if the prize money for the lowest gross was similar to lowest nett. For any player not capable of winning the gross at all, most of the field, they'd be forgiven for being a little annoyed that a significant proportion of their entry fee is being paid out to the low handicappers. It would be interesting to total up all prize money given out over the year, combining all gross and nett prizes, and see how much of those funds were given back to the lower handicappers. Then compare that to the handicap proportions making up the typical field.

I agree entirely with your comments Swango.

In a medal round we have 1 winner and 3 categories split 1st 2nd and 3rd ie 10 prizes PLUS BEST Gross.

The best gross is the same amount as coming 2nd in each category.

example if the Prize Pot was £400 it would be split into 4 x£100. This is split 48%, 32% and 20%. In 3 categories. Do not ask me why!
The winner receives 68% of £100 and the best gross 32%.

In winter the Prompays out for best Gross in Stableford Competitions.

 

[evemccc]

Genuinely, what’s the actual point of having pay-outs in amateur golf (at the standard most of us play at in our weekly / monthly medals, esp if such sandbagging and protecting of h/caps is done to the level it seems it is?

When you see some of the fancy cars regularly parked at my club then obvs any winnings is merely loose change and I am (naively?) amazed that people would and do manipulate h/caps so they can win relative peanuts by ‘beating’ other people..

The 23 H/cap referenced by @Bdill93 sounds a disgrace

If prize pots were really minimal - and for things that are only won by things people do by ‘trying’ eg 2s etc would h/cap protecting not stop?

 

[evemccc]

Genuinely, what’s the actual point of having pay-outs in amateur golf (at the standard most of us play at in our weekly / monthly medals, esp if such sandbagging and protecting of h/caps is done to the level it seems it is?

When you see some of the fancy cars regularly parked at my club then obvs any winnings is merely loose change and I am (naively?) amazed that people would and do manipulate h/caps so they can win relative peanuts by ‘beating’ other people..

The 23 H/cap referenced by @Bdill93 sounds a disgrace

If prize pots were really minimal - and for things that are only won by things people do by ‘trying’ eg 2s etc would h/cap protecting not stop?

I played out of my skin and beat a v low handicapper in a matchplay - but even though I was v happy with my game on that day and the result, I still didn’t get a lower gross score than him so I honestly don’t feel that I ‘beat’ him

 

[Swango1980]

I agree entirely with your comments Swango.

In a medal round we have 1 winner and 3 categories split 1st 2nd and 3rd ie 10 prizes PLUS BEST Gross.

The best gross is the same amount as coming 2nd in each category.

example if the Prize Pot was £400 it would be split into 4 x£100. This is split 48%, 32% and 20%. In 3 categories. Do not ask me why!
The winner receives 68% of £100 and the best gross 32%.

In winter the Prompays out for best Gross in Stableford Competitions.

At my club, out of about 100 competitors, there are probably half a dozen who are more than likely going to win lowest gross. Unless several are not playing, and another lowish handicapper creeps in with a good round.

So, winning one lowest gross might be close to paying for your seasons comp entry fees, maybe 2 wins tops.

They also are statistically more likely to do well in the 2's.

I've no major issue if the best golfers are generally getting rewarded the most I guess. But, I guess it eases their pain if they are always moaning about high handicappers. If their club hand out lowest gross prizes regularly, and further still, have handicap divisions, they could be swimming in prize money over a year. Meanwhile, there might be over 50 higher handicappers who have won nothing all year.

Arguably, it is the mid handicappers, in general, that are worse off. Many will have plateaued to that handicap, no chance of lowest gross, nor the benefit of vastly improving on their handicap.