Haotong Li penalty

[Imurg]

Will be interesting to see what the R&A come back with.

 

[rulefan]

Seems the PGA tour are at it now

Happily penalised one of the little guys. Then they get told Justin Thomas has done the same thing. You'd assume a penalty for Thomas but no theyve chosen to cancel the original penalty instead. Just lol

https://twitter.com/PGATOURComms

What is Thomas alleged to have done?

 

[Imurg]

What is Thomas alleged to have done?

Did the same thing earlier in the day

 

[drdel]

Well it is probably a dam good job that 99% of us forumers don't have caddies

 

[rulie]

Will be interesting to see what the R&A come back with.

For Immediate Publication

OFFICIAL STATEMENT

2 February 2019, St Andrews, Scotland and Liberty Corner, N.J., USA:

Following an ongoing dialogue with players and in co-operation with the PGA TOUR rules team, The R&A and the USGA revisited the penalty assessed to Denny McCarthy during round two of the Waste Management Open. After an additional review of available video this morning, it was determined that the penalty would not apply in this instance nor in a similar instance involving Justin Thomas. In each of these cases, when the caddie was standing behind the player, the player had not yet begun taking the stance for the stroke, nor could useful guidance on aiming be given because the player was still in the process of determining how to play the stroke. The same would be true for any similar situation that might occur.

The R&A and the USGA recognise that clarity on how to appropriately apply this Rule is needed. We are committed to assessing its impact and will provide the necessary clarifications in the coming days.

Ends.

 

[Slab]

So the R&A and USGA have both dropped their own wording of the rule and instead of making players accountable for alignment they've given all players an easy out

That sound of breaking glass on the tour courses is their bottle crashing

 

[rulie]

So the R&A and USGA have both dropped their own wording of the rule and instead of making players accountable for alignment they've given all players an easy out

That sound of breaking glass on the tour courses is their bottle crashing

Disagree with your assumption. The ruling bodies decided that the Rule had not been breached because the caddie was not in a wrong position when the player began taking his stance for the stroke.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Disagree with your assumption. The ruling bodies decided that the Rule had not been breached because the caddie was not in a wrong position when the player began taking his stance for the stroke.

Well they did first time when the player did it - and i backed them because the letter of the law showed them to be right , but as soon as a big fish is seen doing it , they back down and retreat and go the extra mile to ensure no penalty.

I defended them but they have made complete idiots out of themselves with what has happened over the last couple of days and even last week.

Its quite clear it was a poorly thought out wording even if the rule was the right idea

 

[rulefan]

The (McCarthy/Thomas) cases are quite different from the cases of (Haotong Li & Fowler). Those rulings have not been changed

 

[Colin L]

So the R&A and USGA have both dropped their own wording of the rule .......

That's not what this means
The R&A and the USGA recognise that clarity on how to appropriately apply this Rule is needed.

Clarification will be further explanation of how to apply the words that are in the Rule. It does not mean that the wording will be changed.

This is a new rule which we all, players and referees have to learn. One critical part - when the player starts making his stance - is giving us all some difficulty. The RBs have a bit more work to do to make it clearer how to apply it. That's all there is to it really.

 

[Imurg]

Having said that, they've been working on these new rules for some time.
Isn't it reasonable to expect that, from day 1, that a body such as the PGA Tour can understand and implement them?
Especially as one of the reasons behind the rule changes was to simplify things?
I think they have to alter the wording of at least clarify a set point at which the player starts to take his stance.
Without that there is too high a level of interpretation involved and that's not fair on players or referees.

 

[rulefan]

Isn't it reasonable to expect that, from day 1, that a body such as the PGA Tour can understand and implement them?

The referees employed by the PGA Tour are professionals. I am not. I and a few other amateur refs have been discussing this and have had no problem in understanding just what the rule means. ie our first thoughts are exactly what has finally been determined. (We hadn't seen the the Thomas incident).

It also came up at a social event at my club last night. The few members who were interested, all seemed to understand the words. Most had no interest because they never use caddies. The agreed bottom line was when assessing the line - Players, don't let anyone stand behind you. All others - don't stand behind the player.

Incidentally, Paramor's guys got it right.

 

[clubchamp98]

The referees employed by the PGA Tour are professionals. I am not. I and a few other amateur refs have been discussing this and have had no problem in understanding just what the rule means. ie our first thoughts are exactly what has finally been determined. (We hadn't seen the the Thomas incident).

It also came up at a social event at my club last night. The few members who were interested, all seemed to understand the words. Most had no interest because they never use caddies. The agreed bottom line was when assessing the line - Players, don't let anyone stand behind you. All others - don't stand behind the player.

Incidentally, Paramor's guys got it right.

As soon as they play the first 4bbb they may be interested.
But would I be right saying this goes for your partner.

 

[clubchamp98]

Having said that, they've been working on these new rules for some time.
Isn't it reasonable to expect that, from day 1, that a body such as the PGA Tour can understand and implement them?
Especially as one of the reasons behind the rule changes was to simplify things?
I think they have to alter the wording of at least clarify a set point at which the player starts to take his stance.
Without that there is too high a level of interpretation involved and that's not fair on players or referees.

This is correct.
By penalising the first player then changing their mind is proof the ref / PGA got it wrong both decisions can’t be right.

 

[user2010]

That's a massive climb down by the R & A and the USGA.

 

[Colin L]

Climbdown? What are you talking about?

 

[drdel]

Well it might be easier if caddies were not allowed on the green other than to remove/replace the flag.

One of the reasons for having the new option to leave the flag in was to preserve the green's surface by reducing 'traffic' near the hole.

 

[Slab]

Clarification will be further explanation of how to apply the words that are in the Rule. It does not mean that the wording will be changed

They already changed it in the statement from 'a' stance to 'the' stance

It's free license to continue to align the player with minimal offset under the guise of doing it during practice swings

 

[Imurg]

And you have free license to line up your player on the green.
All he has to do is step out and step back in and he's in the clear.
Strange as surely lining up on the green is far more important than lining up 160 yards down the fairway...

 

[rulefan]

As soon as they play the first 4bbb they may be interested.
But would I be right saying this goes for your partner.

And anyone else for that matter.