Handicaps- "Equal" Chance or Winning, Regardless of Ability?

[patricks148]

Just looked 48pts was joint third.
Good score though.

thanks, there must be £2.50 in my account from last year still

lots of big points scores every week, same with the kings, though as my home course is finnished i won't be doing either of the others tis winter esp as they are both due to be Q

 

[patricks148]

Holy poop!!! Getting 48 pts isn't unusual? It's rare at our place for someone to get much over 40. I've won a couple of years ago with about 38 pts (div 1). I don't think I've seen individual scores up near 48? Maybe 42-44 or so.....rarely.

during the summer, i'd imagine there are not many scores over 36 points at Nairn dunbar, at Nairn you would win most weeks with 36

 

[Slab]

It’s not a huge issue.
But most low caps Are very competitive that’s how they get low.
They can’t compete on a very short course because most higher caps get into trouble off the tee with driver.
A very shortened course takes a lot of trouble , hazards out of play.
They have a moan but know it’s not going to change anything.
I still play winter comps but know I have very little chance of winning ,that’s fine.

The prize money is less in winter due to less players and I don’t think that’s a factor for most low cappers .
They just want a buzz from being in contention but with 46/48 pts winning most weeks at ours that’s just not going to be the case .

It was Swango that said it was a huge issue at his club, I couldn't say whether it is or not

I don't get to experience UK golf lately or shortened courses, maybe that's why I don't see 46/48pts winning individual comps either, its just not a thing
But if someone is a low handicap player and the course is down to under 5000 yards that's not really a golfing challenge for them anyway

 

[clubchamp98]

during the summer, i'd imagine there are not many scores over 36 points at Nairn dunbar, at Nairn you would win most weeks with 36

Yes ours to 38pts off the whites is a really good score.
But most of the trouble is off the tee.
Shorten the course takes most of the trouble out of play and the scores just go stupid.

One thing that did surprise me is some don’t like summer greens.
They like them slower this shows in their winter scores.

 

[Mandofred]

during the summer, i'd imagine there are not many scores over 36 points at Nairn dunbar, at Nairn you would win most weeks with 36

So....kind of back to the title......serious question.....how are people getting up to 48pts? I just looked back at last weekends Pro Stableford.....lots of really good scores with a 42 for the winner. But 48? I would have thought that someone getting 48 was an incredibly rare thing to happen.

 

[clubchamp98]

It was Swango that said it was a huge issue at his club, I couldn't say whether it is or not

I don't get to experience UK golf lately or shortened courses, maybe that's why I don't see 46/48pts winning individual comps either, its just not a thing
But if someone is a low handicap player and the course is down to under 5000 yards that's not really a golfing challenge for them anyway

Yes your right 5000 yds isn’t great but we are in the UK.
It Is blown up every year but I havnt heard a single moan at my club from low caps, they just want to play.

It’s like the car driver / cyclist argument no one is right ,no one is wrong.
It’s a personal view formed by your handicap .

 

[Slab]

I'm sure we are not talking about Ryder Cup intensity. There are a lot of people who are competitive in all aspects. Was it Gazza that said, even if he was playing his kid daughter at tiddly winks, he would 100% want to win?

Yeah that's a sad thing to read, not everyone should be a parent

 

[patricks148]

Yes ours to 38pts off the whites is a really good score.
But most of the trouble is off the tee.
Shorten the course takes most of the trouble out of play and the scores just go stupid.

One thing that did surprise me is some don’t like summer greens.
They like them slower this shows in their winter scores.

yes, slower greens do make a diff, little break on some of the putts plus greens are softer, most can stop the ball on the greens too. biggest diff at ND is the length, in summer its 6700 off the whites and there are plenty of holes most can't reach in two, but off the winter tee it must be almost 600 yards shorter, theres not much trouble off the tee's if you are straight, you can take driver and a wedge and stick it close, where as summer you still have long 2nd shots

 

[Grizzly]

Well thank you for trying.
But there must be a limit to how many shots someone gets ,54 is to high in my honest opinion.

Genuine Question .
I have seen players hack it around ,not hitting the ball more than 50 yds .
Is that enjoyable really.?

Totally agree, save that I think 54 should be permitted for Juniors provided they are only playing in Junior competition. I'm used to the idea of 28 being the upper limit for men, and I don't personally think it should be any higher (I spend my days at the course intoning "please don't put me off 29....") and, honestly, I reckon that's sufficient, I suppose you could argue for an introductory 36 provided it has a time limited of your first year then 28.

On the other question, I've never been in the genuine hacker category - my problem is mostly just being wildly inconsistent off the tee, combined with insisting on picking shots I could hit 20 years ago when my back and knees worked - but I reckon if you were playing at that level with no sign of improvement, you'd have to ask yourself questions!

 

[clubchamp98]

yes, slower greens do make a diff, little break on some of the putts plus greens are softer, most can stop the ball on the greens too. biggest diff at ND is the length, in summer its 6700 off the whites and there are plenty of holes most can't reach in two, but off the winter tee it must be almost 600 yards shorter, theres not much trouble off the tee's if you are straight, you can take driver and a wedge and stick it close, where as summer you still have long 2nd shots

The Bobble theory comes in as well.

Good putter gets the ball online most of the time ,if it bobbles left or right it misses.
But ball offline if it bobbles towards the hole you have a 50% chance to hole out.
An old pro told me that .

 

[sunshine]

Genuine Question .
I have seen players hack it around ,not hitting the ball more than 50 yds .
Is that enjoyable really.?

If you're used to hitting it 250 off the tee, and suddenly you can only hit it 50 yards (as happened to me one round this year), then no it's not enjoyable

If you're used to hitting it 20 yards and then you start hitting it 50 yards (my 7 year old) then it's great fun! However, I don't think someone with this level of ball striking ability should be playing a 6,500 yard course. That's where pitch and putt comes in - surely this has to be much more enjoyable?

 

[clubchamp98]

If you're used to hitting it 250 off the tee, and suddenly you can only hit it 50 yards (as happened to me one round this year), then no it's not enjoyable

If you're used to hitting it 20 yards and then you start hitting it 50 yards (my 7 year old) then it's great fun! However, I don't think someone with this level of ball striking ability should be playing a 6,500 yard course. That's where pitch and putt comes in - surely this has to be much more enjoyable?

What happened there that’s unusual?
Think one round is excusable
50 yds for a 7 yr old is very good.
I am talking about players who have been members for years but still can’t hit the ball 50yds.
Is that really enjoyable for them.
It might be it’s a personal thing.

 

[patricks148]

The Bobble theory comes in as well.

Good putter gets the ball online most of the time ,if it bobbles left or right it misses.
But ball offline if it bobbles towards the hole you have a 50% chance to hole out.
An old pro told me that .

that has been the main complaint for some of the ND members, they do course maintainence in Aug, so by Sept and though winter the greens are very smooth and true, just slower. I won't be doing the WL at the kings as the Hollow tined a few weeks ago, don't have the money to top dress too often so the greens are a shocker, played it two weeks ago and you couln't hole a put from a foot, the ball just bumped off line, the two guys i play with there are hardcore for not having gimmies, they where even happy for anything inside a foot

 

[clubchamp98]

that has been the main complaint for some of the ND members, they do course maintainence in Aug, so by Sept and though winter the greens are very smooth and true, just slower. I won't be doing the WL at the kings as the Hollow tined a few weeks ago, don't have the money to top dress too often so the greens are a shocker, played it two weeks ago and you couln't hole a put from a foot, the ball just bumped off line, the two guys i play with there are hardcore for not having gimmies, they where even happy for anything inside a foot

Tough school!

 

[patricks148]

Tough school!

yes and to make it funnier the worst of them... who won't ever give a put is off 12 and can't putt for toffee

 

[badgergm]

Well, writing from the viewpoint of my club, I honestly don't know anyone who's handicap is not a fair reflection of their ability.I think the 0.1 plus a handicap committee has served us well over the years.
And as for seniors, I am close to 70, and have just got down to my lowest ever handicap of 11, having tried for almost 20 years to get to single figures.
All our seniors put in strong performances, not every week admittedly, who does?

When I returned to golf a few years ago after 25 years a non member, I was shocked at the ampunts that could be won. Far too high IMO and a majo

I would be interested to see how memberships responded if you removed all incentives from competitions except bragging rights and handicap adjustments (except for major comps where there is already silverware). Would you get as many entries if you took away the reward of pro shop vouchers etc for winning. You would almost certainly see who was being 100% honest when they say that their only aim is get the handicap as low as possible.

This.

When I returned to golf a few years ago after 25 years a non member, I was shocked at the amounts that could be won. Far too high IMO and a major issue in handicap manipulation.

 

[patricks148]

I would be interested to see how memberships responded if you removed all incentives from competitions except bragging rights and handicap adjustments (except for major comps where there is already silverware). Would you get as many entries if you took away the reward of pro shop vouchers etc for winning. You would almost certainly see who was being 100% honest when they say that their only aim is get the handicap as low as possible.

I'd agree, far to many pot hunters.

i play because i enjoy the comp and on the old system getting my handicap down

 

[howbow88]

I've just seen that my 10.2 is going down to 9.9, so no real change. My mate who was 19.3 has jumped up to 22.7.

At our home course off the whites, my playing handicap works out to 10 and his is 24...

I am not bothered about winning a few quid for a takeaway in the evening, but I do like to win. If there are many more examples like the above at my club, it seems like I have zero chance of doing so. That guy is your typical mid to high handicapper - he hits a slice but he hits it every single time, and the rest of his game is reasonable enough to get him round without any major issues. Giving him 9 or 10 shots from my handicap of 10 felt about right... Jumping that up to 14 seems fairly mad.

 

[Swango1980]

I've just seen that my 10.2 is going down to 9.9, so no real change. My mate who was 19.3 has jumped up to 22.7.

At our home course off the whites, my playing handicap works out to 10 and his is 24...

I am not bothered about winning a few quid for a takeaway in the evening, but I do like to win. If there are many more examples like the above at my club, it seems like I have zero chance of doing so. That guy is your typical mid to high handicapper - he hits a slice but he hits it every single time, and the rest of his game is reasonable enough to get him round without any major issues. Giving him 9 or 10 shots from my handicap of 10 felt about right... Jumping that up to 14 seems fairly mad.

Are these Index values or Course Handicap?

 

[jpjeffery]

Not many scratch comps for amateur golfers?

My club has one a year... And you have to qualify for entry.