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Handicaps controversial?

I accept what you're saying and to be honest single figures (never going to get your level) is my aim but even now I'd get hacked off if I came in with a 40 pointer off 12 and got turned over by an 18+ although I'd rather get done on countback than him come in with 41. At least I feel I was still a moral winner (ok it doesn't bring home the trophy) and who knows, a decent finish and it could still be me. I think our front nine is an easier scoring loop especially for stableford so I'd be hoping his score was say 22-23 going out and he came back poorly. If I had 19-20 coming home I'd be hopeful
 
To be honest does it really matter about a comp in the grans scheme of things yes it dissapointing but TBH i would be happy with a cushty little cut to the handicap and the kudos of a great score.

Although i do think the matter needs addresing as others have said previous.
 
The answer is to have everyone off 3/4 handicaps in all competitions.
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'aving a larf are you ??
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Um, I wasn't actually... what's wrong with it?
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Nothing, good suggestion...
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Thought a one handicapper might like that suggestion :). However, it might mean good golf is rewarded more often. Would be interesting to see the CONGU stats on their website based on 3/4 handicaps.
 
Thought a one handicapper might like that suggestion :). However, it might mean good golf is rewarded more often. Would be interesting to see the CONGU stats on their website based on 3/4 handicaps.
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See myth 7.

And I'm intrigued by all these clubs where winners keep coming in with 47-48-49-50 points? Admittedly I've only been a member of a club for a year, but the highest winning score I've seen so far is 43. And most weeks it's usually well under 40.

Simple solution is if you don't want to risk being beaten on occasion by a higher handicapper, then don't play against them. No-one's making you.
 
Thought a one handicapper might like that suggestion :). However, it might mean good golf is rewarded more often. Would be interesting to see the CONGU stats on their website based on 3/4 handicaps.
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See myth 7.
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Myth 7 is a fix, and it's referring to matchplay. There are only 5 people entered from Cat4 and 27 from Cat1... at any normal club those figures would be 5 Cat1 and 200 Cat4 :)

http://www.congu.com/template1.asp?pid=174

Also odd that of the 5 Cat4 players all were out by the second round whilst at my club they'd all have 40+points :D



I don't care personally what someones h/cap is or what they score.. it's normally only a £5'er we play for and if it's that important to them they can have it BEFORE we tee off if they want.

Looking at myth 1 where it says that the low handicapper has no chance of winning...
handicapCat.gif


You have to conceed that the person with the least chance is actually a Cat 1 golfer.

They are trying to debunk the myths whilst actually providing evidence to show that the myths are actually TRUE!

Only a 10% chance of a Cat1 golfer winning because all the other times it's clearly a higher h/capper having a monster 44+pts round!! :p

With 19% you are TWICE as likely to win is you are Cat4 than if you are Cat1 :D :D
 
I've not looked at the stats so forgive me if I'm mistaken but how much of that is proportional? From a statistical analysis point of view to be accurate you can't just take the total number of winners and divide them by category as it places undue bias on the number of entries. To analyse it properly you need to calculate the percentage chance of winning based on entrants from anyone category.

Let's be crude. 100 people regularly enter a competition. 8 Cat 1, 36 Cat 2, 40 Cat 3, 16 Cat 4. Players from each category have the same statistical liklihood of winning a competition of 1%. When you do the maths based on this simple hypothesis you have a greater statistical possibility that a player from Cat 3 will win.

That doesn't mean the competition is unfairly structured it just means there are more of them so there's a higher probability one will haves good day. That doesn't necessarily mean that the scoring system isn't weighted more favourably towards them, but it does mean the statistics may be misleading on true volume of victories.

A thorough analysis would look at a range of variables such as the SSS rating, the playing conditions, pin location difficulty, proportion of players from each category, winning score etc

it's very easy to get subjective on these things recalling a single bad memory of a countback defeat and the odd freakish score.
 
Have I got this right then ?

All the high handicappers play at clubs that have 4 prizes for the different cats, so the cat 1 players win something every time.

But all the cat 1 players play at clubs that don't have this sort of breakdown, and there's only one prize given to the bandit of the day.

:D
 
I think a lot of all of this is in the head.
When I play with a low, single figure handicapped golfer and he is blitzing it. You know, drives nearly 300 yards (or more) every time, straight down the middle. And then creams a 4 iron 200 yards onto the green. He's really on his game, I am loving it. I am in awe at the wonderous spectacle laid out in front of me and it's a pleasure to be out there with him. I am willing every birdie putt in for him. I am rooting for his every shot. I want him to get eagles. One of golfs pleasures that is, playing with a good golfer and watching him have a good game. And when you sign his scorecard for 40 points and work out he's gone round 1 or 2 over gross? Congratulations mate, and well played. I want to buy him a drink. I want to be his mate. I'm loving it.
Give the same bloke an 18 plus handicap and he's hitting the ball like that? I can't help thinking he's a cheating bastid and I'm willing every tee shot to go into the trees. But it doesn't. And I get more cheesed off. And every time he cans a putt I want to stab him. And every time he chips in I want to stab him again. And when I sign his scorecard for 46 points I want to tear it up, throw my clubs in the nearest lake and take up crochet or knitting. I say "well played mate" but I don't really mean it. Honest. I dont.
Why is that?
 
Have I got this right then ?

All the high handicappers play at clubs that have 4 prizes for the different cats, so the cat 1 players win something every time.

But all the cat 1 players play at clubs that don't have this sort of breakdown, and there's only one prize given to the bandit of the day.

:D
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if there was a prize for each category the whole thread would be a moot point as it would equate to 100% record for each category. It must be based on overall winner and as such the category with the highest proportion of participants would statistically more likely to win.

I really do think that clubs could place a degree of science to the competition to even things up. Take stroke index for example. The holes are already graded by difficulty but if you stick the pin in a nice easy to hit/flat putting area you are reducing the advantage of the cat 1 player because their superior playing skills are dampened by the fact that from 100 yards in the lesser player can get up and down more easily.

If clubs graded difficulty of pin position in grades A-C and ensured a mixture of six of each, and then tactically dispersed them based on SI you could weight the course to reward the better quality shot makers enabling them with their superior ball striking some possible birdie/eagle opportunities.

For example a nice flat bit of putting area on a par 5 that a good player could reach in 2 but a weaker player would really struggle to reach/avoid hazards would be one possibility. It does put the onus on the green keepers and committee to get their thinking caps on. I actually think it would be a really interesting piece of analytical research that Golf Monthly could lead on culminating in useful guidance for clubs across the country. Judging by the comments in here I think it would also becextremely popular.

Granted it wouldn't stop the odd 'cheating' git in a sombrero riding off with the prize but then again, in the absence of Yul Brynner, Steve MacQueen and co. what would?
 
The sample sizes in the CONGU tables are too smal to be reliable.

A lot of people misunderstand statistics. The probability of something may be low, but that doesn't mean that there is a problem when that low probability outcome occurs, just that such an outcome will occur uncommonly.

Low handicap players usually have a tighter range of scores. A scratch player may typically (say 80% of the time) score in the 69-74 range, with a few 67s or 76s, and an occasional 66 or 80. By contrast the 20 handicappers range of typical scores is much wider, say 80-100, so on any given day, the chance of a 20 handicapper scoring really low is higher than that for a scratch player. But somewhere else in the distribution of scores for the day is another 20 handicapper with a cricket score.
 
The sport would lose the majority of its appeal in my opinion, handicaps allow everyone to compete. and yes, there are the sharks with the artificially high handicaps, but imo the majority of golfers strive to get cut, and there is no better feeling than getiin a 2 shot cut when youre in cat4!

Lose the handicaps=lose money/members/interest.
 
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