Handicap not on card - so what?

[Maninblack4612]

I got one of my fellow competitors disqualified yesterday by forgetting to write his handicap on the card. In these days of computerised records isn't it time this rule was scrapped? The missing handicap didn't affect the score and, in fact, it was written on the card, after the gross scores for the two nines. Don't think the rules of golf specify where the handicap needs to be recorded on the card.

Anybody else think that this rule is a bit harsh?

 

[Swinglowandslow]

How do you mean , you got him disqualified.
That sentence sounds like you achieved something??, though the rest of the post is , rightly, indicating that it is a draconian, unsound rule, that you thought shouldn't lead to DQ.
BTW, is it a rule? . Is it important, that important..?
I certainly would hate to be associated with having someone disqualified for failing to write his handicap on the card- ( unless I had no choice but to have to do it).As you say, these days it is recorded somewhere.
Like a number of rules, in the interests of fairness, it is ripe for amendment or scrapping.
E.g. Pro tour, televised , scores updated on course etc, yet player can still be disqualified for failing to sign his card?.

 

[YandaB]

I got one of my fellow competitors disqualified yesterday by forgetting to write his handicap on the card. In these days of computerised records isn't it time this rule was scrapped? The missing handicap didn't affect the score and, in fact, it was written on the card, after the gross scores for the two nines. Don't think the rules of golf specify where the handicap needs to be recorded on the card.

Anybody else think that this rule is a bit harsh?

As I understand it, as marker, it is your responsibility to write down their scores and sign that you believe them to be correct. It is the players responsibility to write their handicap and sign it agreeing the scores and the handicap. In these covid days where we cannot touch cards and it is all done on the computer, i agree that this seems unnecessary, though perhaps someone has identified scenarios where this doesn't work. I know that when we used IG last week it insisted in rounding down all handicaps (I couldn't believe a firm dedicated to writing software for golf could get that wrong!).

 

[Maninblack4612]

How do you mean , you got him disqualified.
That sentence sounds like you achieved something??, though the rest of the post is , rightly, indicating that it is a draconian, unsound rule, that you thought shouldn't lead to DQ.
BTW, is it a rule? . Is it important, that important..?
I certainly would hate to be associated with having someone disqualified for failing to write his handicap on the card- ( unless I had no choice but to have to do it).As you say, these days it is recorded somewhere.
Like a number of rules, in the interests of fairness, it is ripe for amendment or scrapping.
E.g. Pro tour, televised , scores updated on course etc, yet player can still be disqualified for failing to sign his card?.

I can't believe that I forgot but it didn't matter, he still got a +. 1 which put him back to 10 handicap, having just come down last week. Nowhere near the net 58 which won the comp!

Having looked at rule 3.3, nowhere does it say where the handicap has to be written on the card. In fact it was there, just to the right of where it said "handicap" & just below the "in" & "out" sections of the card. I reckon I could defend that in court, although I don't think it will come to that. Our president is a retired solicitor, I might run it past him.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

As I understand it, as marker, it is your responsibility to write down their scores and sign that you believe them to be correct. It is the players responsibility to write their handicap and sign it agreeing the scores and the handicap. In these covid days where we cannot touch cards and it is all done on the computer, i agree that this seems unnecessary, though perhaps someone has identified scenarios where this doesn't work. I know that when we used IG last week it insisted in rounding down all handicaps (I couldn't believe a firm dedicated to writing software for golf could get that wrong!).

Right now though, the card stays with the marker and is untouched by anyone else.
Currently we are entering our own scores via the IG app, and a picture of our card is only required if par/36pts or better is achieved. There seems no compunction to keep anyone elses score, although we do for confirmation purposes.

 

[HampshireHog]

At the moment we don’t touch our own card at any point. The marker fills in all the details photographs it and submits the photo via IG. I’d be furious to be DQ’d for something I never had contact with.

 

[jim8flog]

I got one of my fellow competitors disqualified yesterday by forgetting to write his handicap on the card. In these days of computerised records isn't it time this rule was scrapped? The missing handicap didn't affect the score and, in fact, it was written on the card, after the gross scores for the two nines. Don't think the rules of golf specify where the handicap needs to be recorded on the card.

Anybody else think that this rule is a bit harsh?

IMO His handicap was on the card. Having it in the 'wrong place' should not be a DQ

3.3b/2 – Information Put in Wrong Location on Scorecard May Still Be Acceptable
Although all requirements of Rule 3.3b must be met before a scorecard is returned, there is no penalty if the correct information is mistakenly entered on the scorecard in a place other than where it was expected to be, except that each hole score on the scorecard must be identifiable to the correct hole (see 3.3b(3)/1).

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Add it to the list of harsh rules related to golf. I have to say I'm enjoying the current system at our place. We are not handing in cards, they are purely going off the computer entry. No more worries about ticking the right box, filling in the correct comp name, tee box colour, date, tee off time, counting correctly etc. Mark the number of shots, allow technology to do its job, end of story.

 

[Orikoru]

Totally agree. Firstly, to be disqualified for something somebody else did or didn't write on the card is grossly unfair. Especially in these current times where we're no longer swapping cards, supposedly.
Secondly, it should only matter that you entered the correct gross scores for each hole. As you say the handicap is recorded elsewhere and surely is calculated automatically when the score is entered later on anyway.

 

[jim8flog]

One of the advantages of doing it the way the R&A suggested (player keeps his own card) is that a player is responsible for writing/meeting the requirements on the card and not the marker.

I have always felt that this is the right way round for that sort of reason. Any errors on the card and the only person that can be to blame is the player them self.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Is it worth dropping an email to the handicap secretary outlining your concerns about the DQ given the handicap was recorded on the card albeit in the wrong place. Seems harsh on the PP although it is a salutary lesson that you are ultimately responsible for your own admin housekeeping. Hands up those (including me) who haven't singed a card as an example. That as a DQ I get but if the information is there, especially in the current competitive situation it does seem wrong (even if its just morally)

 

[rulefan]

Post #7 covers it all.

" ..... there is no penalty if the correct information is mistakenly entered on the scorecard in a place other than where it was expected to be, ..."

 

[2blue]

IMO His handicap was on the card. Having it in the 'wrong place' should not be a DQ

3.3b/2 – Information Put in Wrong Location on Scorecard May Still Be Acceptable
Although all requirements of Rule 3.3b must be met before a scorecard is returned, there is no penalty if the correct information is mistakenly entered on the scorecard in a place other than where it was expected to be, except that each hole score on the scorecard must be identifiable to the correct hole (see 3.3b(3)/1).

YES...... Comp should be reopened & he should be reinstated if they are to follow the Rules. Like signature for the score...... there's not a 'required' place for it. I guess they may have over looked where his H/cap was written that's THEIR mistake & they're responsible for correcting it. Let us know Bill.
EDIT.... What the hell are they doing, handling cards!!! Irresponsible!!!

 

[patricks148]

not a problem at ours, printed sticker on our cads with all your details on, so apart from the medals you play with partners of your choice and are not drawn you don't need to write on a card at all.

 

[bobmac]

I got one of my fellow competitors disqualified yesterday

I take it you have un-DQ'd the golfer?

 

[Maninblack4612]

I take it you have un-DQ'd the golfer?

I have referred our manager, who processed the cards, to this thread. Makes no difference, the player wasn't in contention & got his +.1 anyway.

 

[bobmac]

I have referred our manager, who processed the cards, to this thread. Makes no difference, the player wasn't in contention & got his +.1 anyway.

It might make a difference to the guy dq'd for doing nothing wrong, an apology wouldn't go amiss either.

 

[chrisd]

It might make a difference to the guy dq'd for doing nothing wrong, an apology wouldn't go amiss either.

And it might educate the manager as to what the players responsibilities regarding the card are too.

 

[Maninblack4612]

And it might educate the manager as to what the players responsibilities regarding the card are too.

Don't be too hard on him. He's not the handicap Sec & he's processing all the cards on his own because the self entry system we tried proved to be unreliable.

 

[chrisd]

Don't be too hard on him. He's not the handicap Sec & he's processing all the cards on his own because the self entry system we tried proved to be unreliable.

But a basic understanding of the requirements is surely necessary to do any job where the rules are applied, or, at least, ask before making difficult decisions