Handicap manipulation - how to address

[KenL]

Or every saturday & sunday, 52 weeks a year at others.

That’s just nuts.

 

[KenL]

For those who think it's fine to give men more than one shot, and occasionally 2, on a hole why is the limit 54?

What's your criteria for it not being infinity?

It is about inclusivity, and rightly so, as long as the handicap is about right.

 

[3offTheTee]

I'm suggesting it doesn't matter what you claim, impossible to verify. Your line of debate is what's important on a forum and how you're judged.

How do you think you will be judged after around 3 weeks' on The Forum?

 

[clubchamp98]

There have always been cheats and bandits and there probably always will be.

If only there was a thread on here that sought to find and share good ways and best practice to discover and minimise the number of them.

You could start by confiscating their pencils.

A good pencil beats most scores

 

[clubchamp98]

Already been pointed out, but maximum handicap is a bit of a red herring in relation to this thread. The maximum handicap could be set to any number in any handicap system, and was indeed introduced pre WHS.

Sure, reducing the maximum handicap will stop any handicap manipulation by any individual that is doing it above the new maximum, and who cant actually get their handicap down to the new maximum if they give it their best. But, it won't stop any individuals who are currently manipulating their handicap, below the new maximum.

The maximum allowed handicap is a different discussion, and a fair discussion to have (I've no issues with it to be honest, and clubs can still set upper handicap limits on their competitions if they wish, ours set it to 24). But I think it is best left for a separate thread personally.

It’s a bit of an odd one!
Why give someone a 54 handicap if you’re only going to let him use 24 of them in any comp.?
It could only be for social golf or opens.
Seeing lots of clubs are setting tighter limits it’s for social golf .

 

[Thintowin]

How do you think you will be judged after around 3 weeks' on The Forum?

Marmite

If it's a popularity contest then I need a 54 handicap

 

[wjemather]

Already been pointed out, but maximum handicap is a bit of a red herring in relation to this thread. The maximum handicap could be set to any number in any handicap system, and was indeed introduced pre WHS.

Sure, reducing the maximum handicap will stop any handicap manipulation by any individual that is doing it above the new maximum, and who cant actually get their handicap down to the new maximum if they give it their best. But, it won't stop any individuals who are currently manipulating their handicap, below the new maximum.

The maximum allowed handicap is a different discussion, and a fair discussion to have (I've no issues with it to be honest, and clubs can still set upper handicap limits on their competitions if they wish, ours set it to 24). But I think it is best left for a separate thread personally.

It's ok to set limits, but higher handicappers should by afforded opportunities to play comps using their full unrestricted allowance. For example, a secondary comp for those above the limit for the main comp.

"It is important to ensure that all players have the opportunity to compete in competitions, and that higher handicaps are not discriminated against. Maintaining player interest in the sport is of crucial importance; both for the declining or improving high handicap golfer."

 

[Thintowin]

It's ok to set limits, but higher handicappers should by afforded opportunities to play comps using their full unrestricted allowance. For example, a secondary comp for those above the limit for the main comp.

"It is important to ensure that all players have the opportunity to compete in competitions, and that higher handicaps are not discriminated against. Maintaining player interest in the sport is of crucial importance; both for the declining or improving high handicap golfer."

Those of us that started as juniors will recognise those special competitions. More and more people wanting to have a go in later life but clubs don't want to embarrass adults by effectively treating them like juniors who need to develop before they compete properly.

 

[Swango1980]

It’s a bit of an odd one!
Why give someone a 54 handicap if you’re only going to let him use 24 of them in any comp.?
It could only be for social golf or opens.
Seeing lots of clubs are setting tighter limits it’s for social golf .

There are a few comps that allows full handicap, but not board comps (most comps over normal season are board comps)

But, the fact they can get a handicap index up to 54 at least allows them to submit scores, officially get a handicap to give them an idea of their level in comparison to others, and have an Index they can look to reduce and highlight how they've improved.

 

[Thintowin]

There are a few comps that allows full handicap, but not board comps (most comps over normal season are board comps)

But, the fact they can get a handicap index up to 54 at least allows them to submit scores, officially get a handicap to give them an idea of their level in comparison to others, and have an Index they can look to reduce and highlight how they've improved.

They tell me that golfers should choose the tees that match their ability. I would suggest that those over 28 should go play pitch and putt so perhaps clubs that have these players should consider introducing a small tee on each hole, on the edge of the rough, giving 18 holes of between 100 and 150 yards for these people to get up to speed.

 

[Billysboots]

They tell me that golfers should choose the tees that match their ability. I would suggest that those over 28 should go play pitch and putt so perhaps clubs that have these players should consider introducing a small tee on each hole, on the edge of the rough, giving 18 holes of between 100 and 150 yards for these people to get up to speed.

I’m really not sure you could be any more patronising to those who hold higher handicaps.

Has it not occurred to you that a significant number of those you consider hackers may have underlying issues which contribute towards their handicaps? Maybe they once held lower handicaps which you might deign to agree are acceptable to you, but have suffered a significant illness or injury which means they can no longer perform to their previous level.

They remain as entitled to enjoy their golf as anyone else without being told to do so at a pitch and putt.

I’m now bordering on speechless at some of the bilge I’m reading on this thread.

 

[RichA]

They tell me that golfers should choose the tees that match their ability. I would suggest that those over 28 should go play pitch and putt so perhaps clubs that have these players should consider introducing a small tee on each hole, on the edge of the rough, giving 18 holes of between 100 and 150 yards for these people to get up to speed.

Get over yourself. It's recreation; a hobby. We are literally walking around a field hitting a ball with a stick. You make it sound like we're flying fighter jets.

 

[Thintowin]

I’m really not sure you could be any more patronising to those who hold higher handicaps.

Has it not occurred to you that a significant number of those you consider hackers may have underlying issues which contribute towards their handicaps? Maybe they once held lower handicaps which you might deign to agree are acceptable to you, but have suffered a significant illness or injury which means they can no longer perform to their previous level.

They remain as entitled to enjoy their golf as anyone else without being told to do so at a pitch and putt.

I’m now bordering on speechless at some of the bilge I’m reading on this thread.

It's you that is taking it in that direction. I've never suggested that.

 

[nickjdavis]

Marmite

If it's a popularity contest then I need a 54 handicap

Actually....you'd do better if you took up bowling with the bumpers up.

 

[Billysboots]

It's you that is taking it in that direction. I've never suggested that.

Taking it in what direction? Explain that remark please.

 

[Thintowin]

Taking it in what direction? Explain that remark please.

I'm talking about people encouraged to start playing and competing before they have got up to speed. As juniors we all fell into that category and were only allowed to play in the main competitions when we had developed enough to have found a level fair to the others. Drop a junior in to adult competitions too early and he'll be unbeatable.

 

[PaulMdj]

It’s a bit of an odd one!
Why give someone a 54 handicap if you’re only going to let him use 24 of them in any comp.?
It could only be for social golf or opens.
Seeing lots of clubs are setting tighter limits it’s for social golf .

We only have the Handicap limit for board comps, anyone over 24 is welcome to enter, but can’t win the event.

Any none Board Comps or midweek comps there is no handicap limit, we have 3 Men with Handicaps in the 40’s, 2 are seniors and one is a newish member.

 

[Billysboots]

I'm talking about people encouraged to start playing and competing before they have got up to speed. As juniors we all fell into that category and were only allowed to play in the main competitions when we had developed enough to have found a level fair to the others. Drop a junior in to adult competitions too early and he'll be unbeatable.

That’s a politician’s answer if ever I saw one, and not the first one this thread.

What are your views on those with handicaps of 28 or above who play at that level, in part, because their ability has been adversely impacted by serious illness or injury? It’s a simple question. Not everyone with a high handicap is a hacker.

Are you cutting them some slack or casting them adrift to play pitch and putt or from tees in the rough?

 

[Thintowin]

That’s a politician’s answer if ever I saw one, and not the first one this thread.

What are your views on those with handicaps of 28 or above who play at that level, in part, because their ability has been adversely impacted by serious illness or injury? It’s a simple question. Not everyone with a high handicap is a hacker.

Are you cutting them some slack or casting them adrift to play pitch and putt or from tees in the rough?

That's a different question entirely from the issues I'm trying to highlight with WHS. I have no issues at all with anyone wanting to enjoy golf at whatever level. Those that have had the misfortune to see their game deteriorate through no fault of their own should be compensated in whatever handicap system is in use. But let's face it several posters on here say their clubs limit competition handicaps so little chance for them to compete there.

What I would like to see is a handicap system I can trust and one that isn't focused on patronising people by making it easy to compete before they have reached their level.

 

[hambugerpete]

I'm talking about people encouraged to start playing and competing before they have got up to speed. As juniors we all fell into that category and were only allowed to play in the main competitions when we had developed enough to have found a level fair to the others. Drop a junior in to adult competitions too early and he'll be unbeatable.

At my last club the juniors were unbeatable as they were all single figure golfers