Handicap manipulation - how to address

[Swango1980]

Of all the generalisations I’ve read on this thread, that is right up there.

The absolute worst player at our club for throwing the towel in plays off 5. He will often decide before he’s reached the turn that he’s simply not going to put a card in. The earliest I heard him say it was when he was once walking off the third green. He’s walked off the course after six holes more than once. Notorious for it.

Several other lower handicap golfers at ours are equally quick to stop trying. If they’ve done their handicap a few holes in they start bemoaning the fact, and their rounds go from bad to worse.

Surely it makes far more sense for the higher handicap golfer to keep plugging away if their rounds aren’t going as they’d like, not least because they have more shots to play with.

Or does your suggestion that lower handicap golfers “generally keep trying” just fit the narrative better?

I would say that is a very different situation. A situation that is blatant, and should be very very easy for a Committee to deal with, if they so choose (obviously, they SHOULD act).

I've heard of low handicappers who do exactly what you describe. But, the reason in doing so is that they know their score does not then go on their record, and their handicap stays low (so, in handicap comps, doing themselves a diservice, but their motivation is ultimately to keep a low handicap).

The system does not automatically deal with this, so it relies on the Committee to put in a penalty score (in this case, a penalty score equal to their 20th worst round as far as I remember). If the Committee fail in acting, then the player gets away with it. If the Committee act, then they get a poor score on their record, and a warning about their future conduct. If the player continues to do it, Committee could look at suspending the handicap.

 

[Swango1980]

One thing I always find amusing is an 8 capper shoots net 65 and is a legend , 28 capper does it and is a bandit

I think "legend" is a bit strong a word for an 8 handicapper

If a +5 golfer shot a net 65 on a par 72 course, I'd be comfortable calling them a legend. But, I suspect the odds of an 8 handicapper, and certainly a 28 handicapper, shooting a nett 65 are massively higher than a +5 golfer doing it.

 

[Thintowin]

Are you suggesting that some contributors are falsifying claims of their ability?

I'm suggesting it doesn't matter what you claim, impossible to verify. Your line of debate is what's important on a forum and how you're judged.

 

[bobmac]

I think under the old system where 28 handicap was the maximum you could get, people new to golf realised if they wanted to win anything, they would have to improve, that was the incentive.
With the increase to 54 handicap, a lot of that incentive has gone...sure, they buy all the gear and look the part but ''why should I work at my game when I can use my 54 handicap to help me win.''

 

[Thintowin]

I think "legend" is a bit strong a word for an 8 handicapper

If a +5 golfer shot a net 65 on a par 72 course, I'd be comfortable calling them a legend. But, I suspect the odds of an 8 handicapper, and certainly a 28 handicapper, shooting a nett 65 are massively higher than a +5 golfer doing it.

Of course those odds are all dealt with in a competition by the 95% factor

 

[rulefan]

Golf club manufacturers in particularEven if people only stick at it for a year or two they tend to buy a load of expensive clubs.

So who buys the cheap clubs and why do the manufacturers make them?

 

[Thintowin]

So who buys the cheap clubs and why do the manufacturers make them?

Often more profit in cheap clubs.

Those hollowed out game improvement irons are the biggest profit making clubs. They lure you into thinking you can hit a 7 iron as far as a pro. They're not really irons at all.

 

[wjemather]

I'm suggesting it doesn't matter what you claim, impossible to verify. Your line of debate is what's important on a forum and how you're judged.

How do you suppose all your disparaging remarks (about new golfers, less able golfers, less dedicated golfers, bad golfers, forum members, etc.) are being judged?
You said a while ago that we don't know anything about you. What kind of picture do you think you've painted for us?

 

[hambugerpete]

I think "legend" is a bit strong a word for an 8 handicapper

If a +5 golfer shot a net 65 on a par 72 course, I'd be comfortable calling them a legend. But, I suspect the odds of an 8 handicapper, and certainly a 28 handicapper, shooting a nett 65 are massively higher than a +5 golfer doing it.

We have some decent golfers but I'm not sure we have any +5 entering the monthly medal . You get the drift anyway.

 

[bobmac]

How do you suppose all your disparaging remarks (about new golfers, less able golfers, less dedicated golfers, bad golfers, forum members, etc.) are being judged?

Do you mean by the people who disagree with him or by those who thinks he has a point and agree with him?

 

[GreiginFife]

One thing I always find amusing is an 8 capper shoots net 65 and is a legend , 28 capper does it and is a bandit

There's a couple on here are legends... in their own minds.

 

[DickInShorts]

I think under the old system where 28 handicap was the maximum you could get, people new to golf realised if they wanted to win anything, they would have to improve, that was the incentive.
With the increase to 54 handicap, a lot of that incentive has gone...sure, they buy all the gear and look the part but ''why should I work at my game when I can use my 54 handicap to help me win.''

Clubs can - and do - limit their board comps and Opens to maximum x handicap - 18 or 28 for men or 28 or 36 for ladies.
I still don’t understand the seemingly aversion to divisions at clubs for their competitions.
At mine there are no entry fees for the various club competitions which are on 5 or 6 days a week through the summer .
There is a voluntary pro shop sweep which is paid out in divisions and an overall 2’s sweep too - both are £1.

There have been several occasions where the 2’s sweep has been one by a division winner who has had upwards of £30 added to his pro shop account.

 

[nickjdavis]

Do you mean by the people who disagree with him or by those who thinks he has a point and agree with him?

Unfortunately his blustering's largely disguise whether he has a genuine point to make or not. He has been asked on multiple occasions as to how he would improve the handicapping system and as yet has failed to present one single proposal to fix the issues that he sees, being more content to slag off other golfers for their perceived inadequacies.

Post 1196 is a fantastic summary of this thread so far.

 

[Slab]

I think under the old system where 28 handicap was the maximum you could get, people new to golf realised if they wanted to win anything, they would have to improve, that was the incentive.
With the increase to 54 handicap, a lot of that incentive has gone...sure, they buy all the gear and look the part but ''why should I work at my game when I can use my 54 handicap to help me win.''

No doubt that kind of person is out there but i'd hope (and at least in my experience) they're easily in the minority as far as those who're entering singles comps

The ones I know are desperate to get better, comps be damned

 

[wjemather]

Do you mean by the people who disagree with him or by those who thinks he has a point and agree with him?

Everyone. Regardless of opinions on the handicapping issue, there is no justification for disparaging/belittling/insulting remarks about fellow golfers and/or forum members.

 

[rulefan]

I've no contempt towards them,

"Some of them should be 10 pin bowling with the bumpers up."

Really?

 

[Colin L]

Often more profit in cheap clubs.

Those hollowed out game improvement irons are the biggest profit making clubs. They lure you into thinking you can hit a 7 iron as far as a pro. They're not really irons at all.

More absurd by the minute.

 

[Dunesman]

On the basis that the recommendation is that competitions should have categories, we can conclude that the handicap system is not capable of having a scratch and a 40 handicapper really compete against each other. I think all will agree on this.

Maybe the older systems had the same issue, but it was reduced in effect, with 24 then 28 the max handicaps. WHS has tilted the odds away from low handicaps further. Exacerbating the situation.

But going back to categories, if they are unavoidable for fair competition, should we have :
- a single guidance policy on these categories. Maybe just two : up to 24, and, above 24 ? All the 'old' competitions would then at least in this aspect of the higher handicaps, be restored to what was before 2018.
- furthermore, with such a split, should there then be different single factors for each category and not just a one size fits all, 0.95 ?

There is a contradiction in the EG implementation, where on the one hand they acknowledge a a 1 and a 50 cannot compete fairly, yet arrive at and recommend using 0.95 on the basis that it is the best compromise across the full handicap range ?

If we say we should have categories, say plus infinity to 12 for example, then that competition should be run with a factor that applies to that field of golfers. Not one that is based on a 50hc, who is then not in yhe category anyway ?

 

[Voyager EMH]

There's a couple on here are legends... in their own minds.

Yes, I'm one of them.
I shot level par off a handicap of 8.
That was 48 years ago. Never a net score anywhere near since. So that score is legendary in my memory - can't seem to shift it.
Got me name in gold letters on a board that I glance at now and again.

 

[PaulMdj]

I think under the old system where 28 handicap was the maximum you could get, people new to golf realised if they wanted to win anything, they would have to improve, that was the incentive.
With the increase to 54 handicap, a lot of that incentive has gone...sure, they buy all the gear and look the part but ''why should I work at my game when I can use my 54 handicap to help me win.''

Because that’s not reality! Apart from a very rare 1 or 2 people, most (in our Club) have started on handicaps somewhere between 30 - 45, and, on speaking to our GM this morning, every single new beginner who has joined our Club has seen reductions in their handicap.

If there are any people who are massaging their handicap they have been members who had handicaps under UHS and have seen an opportunity to gain an advantage.

3 were in the 15-20 Handicap range and 1 off 2.

Beginners tend to be ignorant of handicaps and how they work and join to learn the game.