Handicap manipulation - how to address

[Slab]

I get what you're saying. Back a few decades ago golf was played by fairly proficient individuals and the handicap system was used to make up for obvious stuff like not being strong enough to get to a par 4 green in 2 shots. Things have moved on to using it to compensate for those that really shouldn't be competing at all. That's why it's become a bit silly.

Some of us are stuck in that past I guess.

Guesswork on my part but I think if golf & competition golf remained today as you describe it as a few decades ago, the game might now be dead on its feet

Golf (& all society) has been transformed, golf from an exclusive/elite activity often with its club roots closely aligned to only those (men) with professional occupations & ex-military officers, into something open to all

I agree with you that “things have moved on” but handicaps have not moved on to “compensate” for todays players, it’s to include todays players (not sure I should say anything about your opinion they shouldn’t be competing at all !)

There’s an awful lot of things that were accepted decades ago, a large number are no longer accepted or fit for purpose today
If in 1980 the golf landscape was more like it is today, the handicap system would absolutely have changed decades ago

 

[KenL]

Low players are already playing comps

At most clubs if you don’t play in the comp that day you don’t get to play

I and all the low guys at the club still enter all the comps

That’s only 1 weekend day a month at some clubs.

 

[Voyager EMH]

Guesswork on my part but I think if golf & competition golf remained today as you describe it as a few decades ago, the game might now be dead on its feet

Golf (& all society) has been transformed, golf from an exclusive/elite activity often with its club roots closely aligned to only those (men) with professional occupations & ex-military officers, into something open to all

I agree with you that “things have moved on” but handicaps have not moved on to “compensate” for todays players, it’s to include todays players (not sure I should say anything about your opinion they shouldn’t be competing at all !)

There’s an awful lot of things that were accepted decades ago, a large number are no longer accepted or fit for purpose today
If in 1980 the golf landscape was more like it is today, the handicap system would absolutely have changed decades ago

In 1980 I had been playing golf for 10 years.
I would say that golf is far more higher income elitist now than it was then.
Far greater proportion of lower income people seemed to be playing golf 50 years ago. Golf is too expensive now.
Golf clubs survive by attracting people who can afford to play golf even if they are very poor players. Golf clubs need their money, because running a golf club is expensive.
The poor players have paid the same money and so they need to be catered for with regard to participation in club events.

There used to a choice of three 18-hole municipal courses for people in the Leicester area - now there is only one.

That is the changing landscape as I have seen it over the last 50 years.

 

[Thintowin]

In 1980 I had been playing golf for 10 years.
I would say that golf is far more higher income elitist now than it was then.
Far greater proportion of lower income people seemed to be playing golf 50 years ago. Golf is too expensive now.
Golf clubs survive by attracting people who can afford to play golf even if they are very poor players. Golf clubs need their money, because running a golf club is expensive.
The poor players have paid the same money and so they need to be catered for with regard to participation in club events.

There used to a choice of three 18-hole municipal courses for people in the Leicester area - now there is only one.

That is the changing landscape as I have seen it over the last 50 years.

I would agree with that. Many of the people who were members at my club back then couldn't afford to join nowadays. Luckily I've been a member all my life otherwise I wouldn't be too keen on paying the joining fees.

My club was full of golfers once, now plenty with all the gear and no idea. But they have money.

 

[rulefan]

I get what you're saying. Back a few decades ago golf was played by fairly proficient individuals and the handicap system was used to make up for obvious stuff like not being strong enough to get to a par 4 green in 2 shots. Things have moved on to using it to compensate for those that really shouldn't be competing at all. That's why it's become a bit silly.

So, a large %age of players, who have paid their annual subscriptions, should not be playing in competitions?

 

[Thintowin]

So, a large %age of players, who have paid their annual subscriptions, should not be playing in competitions?

Some of them should be 10 pin bowling with the bumpers up.

My point is that we've moved to a situation where the handicap system is now trying to compensate for people who are not even mildly competent at the game.

I think this is driven by business. Golf club manufacturers in particular. Even if people only stick at it for a year or two they tend to buy a load of expensive clubs.

 

[PaulMdj]

That’s only 1 weekend day a month at some clubs.

Or every saturday & sunday, 52 weeks a year at others.

 

[PaulMdj]

Some of them should be 10 pin bowling with the bumpers up.

This sort of post really doesn’t help your opinion or even credibility.

You can come across as very obnoxious with some of your posts about fellow Golfers.

The game is for everyone to play and enjoy, these people you are so dismissive of have always played the game, but those in authority deemed it ok to make them play of a handicap that made it impossible for them to stand any chance of being competitive never mind winning and that had nothing to do with WHS.

 

[hambugerpete]

This thread gets more bizarre by the second

 

[Thintowin]

This sort of post really doesn’t help your opinion or even credibility.

You can come across as very obnoxious with some of your posts about fellow Golfers.

The game is for everyone to play and enjoy, these people you are so dismissive of have always played the game, but those in authority deemed it ok to make them play of a handicap that made it impossible for them to stand any chance of being competitive never mind winning and that had nothing to do with WHS.

Fellow golfers know who they are. The people I'm referring to have a go at everything and are easily exploited. I extended that post to explain that I think the motive is big business.

 

[RichA]

Fellow golfers know who they are. The people I'm referring to have a go at everything and are easily exploited. I extended that post to explain that I think the motive is big business.

It's expensive to run a golf course. The money of the people you're referring to is probably enabling people like you to even have a golf club.
And in terms of golf being expensive, full membership of my club just outside London is somewhere between the costs of membership at the local council gym and Virgin Active - so about standard for an average person's main leisure hobby.

 

[PaulMdj]

Fellow golfers know who they are. The people I'm referring to have a go at everything and are easily exploited. I extended that post to explain that I think the motive is big business.

These people you are referring to are the ones who are helping keep your membership fees down! Why shouldn’t they have a go at Golf?
And what has it got to do with WHS?

I’ve never seen any advert suggesting people should play Golf or buy a new Driver because we use the WHS.

Sounds more and more like you have quite a few issues with the game.

 

[WorldHandicapSystem]

Some of them should be 10 pin bowling with the bumpers up.

My point is that we've moved to a situation where the handicap system is now trying to compensate for people who are not even mildly competent at the game.

I think this is driven by business. Golf club manufacturers in particular. Even if people only stick at it for a year or two they tend to buy a load of expensive clubs.

If you were even close to being mildly competent at the game you wouldn’t be crying on social media about being uncompetitive in tinpot weekend club competitions .

 

[rulefan]

Some of them should be 10 pin bowling with the bumpers up.

My point is that we've moved to a situation where the handicap system is now trying to compensate for people who are not even mildly competent at the game.

I think this is driven by business. Golf club manufacturers in particular. Even if people only stick at it for a year or two they tend to buy a load of expensive clubs.

I wonder how many others share your contempt of less skilled players. Or is it angst?

 

[hambugerpete]

I wonder how many others share your contempt of less skilled players. Or is it angst?

I feel he got beat by a 54 handicapper in his winter knockout

 

[Thintowin]

I wonder how many others share your contempt of less skilled players. Or is it angst?

I've no contempt towards them, just towards those that exploit them. WHS helps to do that by making it easy to get an official handicap after a week or two, if you want. And up to 54, really?

You can judge me all you like but I'm not as isolated in my views as some would like me to be.

Let's see how long these newly registered golfers hack it.

 

[PaulMdj]

I've no contempt towards them, just towards those that exploit them. WHS helps to do that by making it easy to get an official handicap after a week or two, if you want. And up to 54, really?

You can judge me all you like but I'm not as isolated in my views as some would like me to be.

It was just as easy to get a handicap under UHS, the difference being their current handicap probably reflects their actually ability rather than in the past when they’d of been given 28 or 18 and basically told to suck it up!

 

[Thintowin]

And for those of you wanting to know how good I am at the game you should have worked it out by my posts. I could claim anything, like some, but the viewpoint shown by someone's posts is all that is important.

 

[hambugerpete]

I've no contempt towards them, just towards those that exploit them. WHS helps to do that by making it easy to get an official handicap after a week or two, if you want. And up to 54, really?

You can judge me all you like but I'm not as isolated in my views as some would like me to be.

Let's see how long these newly registered golfers hack it.

I got my handicap in a week under the old system. Played 3 rounds and that was that.

 

[rulefan]

And for those of you wanting to know how good I am at the game you should have worked it out by my posts. I could claim anything, like some, but the viewpoint shown by someone's posts is all that is important.

Are you suggesting that some contributors are falsifying claims of their ability?