Handicap manipulation - how to address

[Thintowin]

We're into the second half century of this thread. Time for a break and an appropriate song. I hope you remember it from your childhood or have it revived it in parenthood. All together now:

The wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round, round and round.
The wheels on the bus go round and round,
All day long ................................... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

There are a few people who are trying to make a point that the game has been unnecessarily wounded by WHS. They believe this has had a detrimental effect on themselves and many others.

There are a few other people who don't seem to care too much because they're happy.

Then there are those who try and tell those that are making a point that they're wrong and that more people have had the game improved for them so the unhappy people don't matter.

The saga will continue...

 

[Dunesman]

Erm, why would they when that is not the case as has been explained numorous times.

Supporters of WHS acknowledge that 0.95 disadvantages the win chances of low handicapper. I dont think it is even serious dispute. WHS acknowledges this is a best balance overall for the full range of handicaps, and that a fully level competition is not possible. Though they dont explain why.

 

[Dunesman]

If that had been communicated before WHS I firmly believe it would not have got through in its present form.

It does smack of - lets not be open or we wont get the new system in, when they discover this, we can put our fingers in our ears and hum Dave Loggins.

 

[Dunesman]

Imo, this thread is hopeless, it's just a gripe session (similar to a Four Yorkshiremen sketch).
The title is "Handicap Manipulation - how to address".

To be fair, its title out of date, as the thread is the catch-all WHS thread, rather than having several overlapping threads. It is no longer exclusively about manipulation.

 

[Eesat 90210]

Imo, this thread is hopeless, it's just a gripe session (similar to a Four Yorkshiremen sketch).

Gripe?
We didn't have that...

 

[doublebogey7]

Supporters of WHS acknowledge that 0.95 disadvantages the win chances of low handicapper. I dont think it is even serious dispute. WHS acknowledges this is a best balance overall for the full range of handicaps, and that a fully level competition is not possible. Though they dont explain why.

As I said it has been explained numerous times on here.

 

[Colin L]

Millennium, isn't that what you meant?

I should learn not to read like quite a few posters on here.

I could be wrong, I've forgotten how to write 1, 1000, 51, 6 and 500 in Roman numerals.

IM LIVID

58 pages.

 

[Colin L]

There are a few people who are trying to make a point that the game has been unnecessarily wounded by WHS. They believe this has had a detrimental effect on themselves and many others.

There are a few other people who don't seem to care too much because they're happy.

Then there are those who try and tell those that are making a point that they're wrong and that more people have had the game improved for them so the unhappy people don't matter.

The saga will continue...

No sense of humour, then?

 

[Thintowin]

58 pages.

Oh, I thought you meant over 1000 messages. Maybe I had the millennium falcon in mind. The rebels will return.

No sense of humour, then?

Didn't you get my Roman numeral joke?

 

[Crow]

Something I miss from a previous GM forum incarnation was a feature where you could click on a thread and see how many posts each "contributor" to that thread had made.

It used to amaze me sometimes how many posts people had made (and it was often the same people) basically saying the same thing over and over.

 

[Steve Wilkes]

The idea that players must continue to play their best after a blow out hole etc is farcical

Once someone has a mare on a hole that’s it , they will just have a bit of fun then etc

Some are so ingrained into the system they fail to see why many of us play the game

These are the exact golfers that cause a lot of the trouble with any handicap system, Their handicap is inflated by their numerous giving up rounds, but when they really want to try the big scores come in
I have the same trouble with my ten-pin bowling league, as soon as someone is beat in a game the last few frames they almost deliberately miss pins, this keeps there handicap high
There are a few with a 5-10 pin better average at the 75 percentile, but I still have to give them pins start , cause their overall average is lower
I can't believe a standard deviation algorithm wasn't built in to the WHS system, especially as there is no longer a need to manually work out handicaps

 

[Thintowin]

These are the exact golfers that cause a lot of the trouble with any handicap system, Their handicap is inflated by their numerous giving up rounds, but when they really want to try the big scores come in
I have the same trouble with my ten-pin bowling league, as soon as someone is beat in a game the last few frames they almost deliberately miss pins, this keeps there handicap high
There are a few with a 5-10 pin better average at the 75 percentile, but I still have to give them pins start , cause their overall average is lower
I can't believe a standard deviation algorithm wasn't built in to the WHS system, especially as there is no longer a need to manually work out handicaps

You've made that point very well. Human nature hasn't been factored into the calculation. That human nature element is particularly loose the higher the handicap. Low handicap players generally keep trying, to their detriment in this system. Some are learning.

 

[Billysboots]

You've made that point very well. Human nature hasn't been factored into the calculation. That human nature element is particularly loose the higher the handicap. Low handicap players generally keep trying, to their detriment in this system. Some are learning.

Of all the generalisations I’ve read on this thread, that is right up there.

The absolute worst player at our club for throwing the towel in plays off 5. He will often decide before he’s reached the turn that he’s simply not going to put a card in. The earliest I heard him say it was when he was once walking off the third green. He’s walked off the course after six holes more than once. Notorious for it.

Several other lower handicap golfers at ours are equally quick to stop trying. If they’ve done their handicap a few holes in they start bemoaning the fact, and their rounds go from bad to worse.

Surely it makes far more sense for the higher handicap golfer to keep plugging away if their rounds aren’t going as they’d like, not least because they have more shots to play with.

Or does your suggestion that lower handicap golfers “generally keep trying” just fit the narrative better?

 

[Thintowin]

Of all the generalisations I’ve read on this thread, that is right up there.

The absolute worst player at our club for throwing the towel in plays off 5. He will often decide before he’s reached the turn that he’s simply not going to put a card in. The earliest I heard him say it was when he was once walking off the third green. He’s walked off the course after six holes more than once. Notorious for it.

Several other lower handicap golfers at ours are equally quick to stop trying. If they’ve done their handicap a few holes in they start bemoaning the fact, and their rounds go from bad to worse.

Surely it makes far more sense for the higher handicap golfer to keep plugging away if their rounds aren’t going as they’d like, not least because they have more shots to play with.

Or does your suggestion that lower handicap golfers “generally keep trying” just fit the narrative better?

That's funny. I'm sure others will tell you that WHS doesn't just let you not put a card in. Penalty score applied. Who's in charge at your club?

 

[Billysboots]

That's funny. I'm sure others will tell you that WHS doesn't just let you not put a card in. Penalty score applied. Who's in charge at your club?

At what point did I say no penalty score was applied?

 

[hambugerpete]

That's funny. I'm sure others will tell you that WHS doesn't just let you not put a card in. Penalty score applied. Who's in charge at your club?

The point is low handicappers are just as likely , maybe moreso at having a hissy fit and quitting after a few holes.

 

[Thintowin]

At what point did I say no penalty score was applied?

It should be if someone was looking after the situation.

 

[Thintowin]

The point is low handicappers are just as likely , maybe moreso at having a hissy fit and quitting after a few holes.

Hissy fits are particular to some individuals. Not trying is different and is less likely in a low handicapper.

 

[Billysboots]

It should be if someone was looking after the situation.

And once again, I didn’t say that wasn’t the case.

I’ve watched from the sidelines as you have repeatedly put your own spin on the comments of others to try and score points. Kindly don’t try it with me.

You suggested that lower handicap golfers are more likely to keep trying. I responded by saying my experience is that is often not the case. I cited an example from first hand experience. The player I refer to has a history of not entering his score onto the system. That is a fact. One I am aware of having seen the evidence at first hand.

Kindly don’t then seek to twist my words to suggest my club is poorly run. It isn’t, and his behaviour is appropriately addressed.

 

[Thintowin]

And once again, I didn’t say that wasn’t the case.

I’ve watched from the sidelines as you have repeatedly put your own spin on the comments of others to try and score points. Kindly don’t try it with me.

You suggested that lower handicap golfers are more likely to keep trying. I responded by saying my experience is that is often not the case. I cited an example from first hand experience. The player I refer to has a history of not entering his score onto the system. That is a fact. One I am aware of having seen the evidence at first hand.

Kindly don’t then seek to twist my words to suggest my club is poorly run. It isn’t, and his behaviour is appropriately addressed.

Reassuring to know that his behaviour is properly addressed. Penalty scores is an important aspect of WHS.