Handicap manipulation - how to address

[Arthur Wedge]

Maybe that's the case at your club but there are several posts on here of low players having their own swindles instead of playing nett comps

If people don’t play in a comp then at most courses they won’t be playing as the course will be closed for the comp

There will be the odd roll up comps etc but from my experience and not just at my club low HCs are still playing in comps - they just want to see a few things adjusted or added

 

[PaulMdj]

Because the low players would start playing comps again

I don't need anyone to explain divisions to me and as I said in post 1,102 I was a member of a club that ran a very popular separate gross comp. Just a shame you had to pay for the net as well.
And as for not many would enter, my experience was practically everyone 5 or less entered.
It was and still is my opinion that it's more rewarding to beat all your fellow Cat ones than to shoot 3 under gross in the nett and not even getting a mention.

Must be very rewarding to pay £2.00 to enter the comp and win £6.00.

 

[Thintowin]

Low players are already playing comps

At most clubs if you don’t play in the comp that day you don’t get to play

I and all the low guys at the club still enter all the comps

Entries down at my club. Seldom do the low guys bother. There's a couple of exceptions but majority voting with their feet.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Entries down at my club. Seldom do the low guys bother. There's a couple of exceptions but majority voting with their feet.

Then put in divisions and a gross prize that’s fair

Very simple changes

 

[D-S]

That tells us what?

It tells us that those who are more engaged and experienced in a club, and willing to give up their time, are more likely to be above average golfers. Good golfers generally stick at this game for life and know a bit about how a club runs.

This is my biggest concern with WHS. This core of club golfers may well be keeping many golf clubs in business. Erode that and UK and Ireland club golf gradually turns into something else.

I would add that I have seen no change in the makeup of these committees since the inception of WHS and as stated before no drop off in the numbers of competitors in their handicap competitions at these clubs 4 years on from the introduction of WHS.
We have had a small decline in numbers of players in 36 hole scratch competitions (which form a prestigious order of merit). Whether that is due to taste or lifestyle I am not sure.

 

[D-S]

Then put in divisions and a gross prize that’s fair

Very simple changes

And typical across most clubs.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

And typical across most clubs.

Most have divisions in place

A gross prize less so

 

[PaulMdj]

Entries down at my club. Seldom do the low guys bother. There's a couple of exceptions but majority voting with their feet.

I’ve not seen any decline in entries at our place, the majority of our single figure (5 and below) guys are focussed on Opens, playing for the team and Club Champs, when entering Club comps they are looking to improve their own Golf and maybe get dome cash in their 2’s pot, this attitude hasn’t changed in 15 years.

The biggest moan they have is the guys keeping low vanity handicaps and denying some of them entries in to Opens.

 

[bobmac]

Must be very rewarding to pay £2.00 to enter the comp and win £6.00.

You only have 3 golfers who are 5 or below?

 

[rulefan]

You only have 3 golfers who are 5 or below?

I would guess there are a significant number of clubs in the UK in that position and many that have no scratch players.

 

[Thintowin]

I would guess there are a significant number of clubs in the UK in that position and many that have no scratch players.

I'm also a member of a small club that falls into that category. Universal disgust at WHS there too.

 

[jim8flog]

If someone has physically changed then that's different, take that out of the scenario for now.

So long enough to be deemed permanent. And taking a lesson hasn't fixed a problem. You've shown you can't possibly get back to your former self.

Could be the yips or duck hooks. Would you want your handicap to go up if it's something you can fix?

Most people are better off working through the problem and giving them a few shots back makes little difference. Of course there are a few where that might work. Depends a lot on the personality.

So that's why I think your handicap going upwards should be taken more seriously and not an inevitable consequence of the handicap system.

To get a handicap review based upon injury or illness that review can only take in to account cards that have been submitted since the injury occurred or the illness started and will only be done once there are sufficient cards submitted for the committee to take in to consideration ( I recommend at least 7 for our committee). With the current system the player putting in cards will often sort it out any way so need to hold a handicap committee meeting (one person on the committee gets paid to be there).

On a personal level since coming back from a long term injury my h/cap has gone up 3 shots (soft cap) and I do not feel a need to involve the rest of the committee to ask for a further increase outright although the scores would warrant it. (We did discuss my handicap at the review though to see if any change could be made to caps).

 

[bobmac]

Just under 30% of UK male golfers are single figures
So if your club has 400 members and only 3% are Cat I, that still 12 golfers

 

[jim8flog]

More and more, it sounds like you're still longing for the pre-1983 system, where golfers were anchored to a best score they could barely hope to get close to ever again; many simply gave up trying and unregulated society/group handicaps were the norm to keep things 'fair'.

I know if we went back to the old pre 1983 system I could be a plus handicap golfer without h/cap committee intervention and I agree. I never played under that system so no idea of how you went up under it .

This was why the system was changed in the first place. It severely punished a player for a 'day in the sun'.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Just under 30% of UK male golfers are single figures
So if your club has 400 members and only 3% are Cat I, that still 12 golfers

So 12 golfers out of 100 plus in any one comp

What’s wrong with just having divisions and a small gross prize out of the entry fund

 

[jim8flog]

Just under 30% of UK male golfers are single figures
So if your club has 400 members and only 3% are Cat I, that still 12 golfers

There are no Cats under the WHS.

 

[Thintowin]

Just under 30% of UK male golfers are single figures
So if your club has 400 members and only 3% are Cat I, that still 12 golfers

I wonder if some of posters on here are actually playing at privately owned courses. What I mean is that the members themselves don't own the club. Many of those courses are stepping stones for golfers getting started and are unlikely to have a representative percentage of low handicappers.

 

[rulefan]

Just under 30% of UK male golfers are single figures
So if your club has 400 members and only 3% are Cat I, that still 12 golfers

That doesn't mean 30% of members of a specific club are single figures or that 3% are cat 1.
My impression is that very low cappers tend to congregate in the more prestigious clubs.

 

[WorldHandicapSystem]

I wonder if some of posters on here are actually playing at privately owned courses. What I mean is that the members themselves don't own the club. Many of those courses are stepping stones for golfers getting started and are unlikely to have a representative percentage of low handicappers.

We’re a member owned club with 137 single figure male members. 9.9 and lower.
7 have a plus index, one as low as +4 recently
40 are old Cat 1

 

[bobmac]

That doesn't mean 30% of members of a specific club are single figures or that 3% are cat 1.
My impression is that very low cappers tend to congregate in the more prestigious clubs.

You're absolutely right, I don't know the exact figures.
But if a club has no low golfers, there would be no need for a gross comp.
The more low golfers there are, I believe the more popular a gross comp would be.

So 12 golfers out of 100 plus in any one comp

What’s wrong with just having divisions and a small gross prize out of the entry fund

Because higher players would complain about paying for a gross prize
And low players would complain about paying towards a nett prize
And at the end of the day, the overall winner would the best nett.

There are no Cats under the WHS.

I think everyone knows I mean 5 or less