Handicap manipulation - how to address

[D-S]

Too many remain unclear about exactly what they should be looking at and how often, but more problematic is not having the skills to analyse the data & interpret the reports in any useful way.

I understand attester geo-location is coming soon, along with same day & attestation.

Exactly, that’s why proactive reports coming out would be good, so the ‘less than good’ committees get signposted to what they need to look at. Any analysis and interpretation that can be done automatically on the raw data would be of help e.g. reports on players with higher than x differential between GP and Competition scores.

Attester geo location will definitely help, cutting off scorecard creation at sunset would be a simple fix which would save a job for the HC (looking up the report and writing to players and deleting scores) and teach players at the same time.

Simple fixes which would show EG are looking to actively build in safeguards and use the existing data to help the volunteers that they rightly claim are a bedrock of their system.

 

[D-S]

If EG (or clubs on instruction from EG) begin looking at differences between comp scores and general play scores then I'm likely to pop up on some report somewhere.
I've got 26 rounds on my handicap record in the last 12 months, 10 comps and 16 general play. The average score differential of the comp rounds is 27.5, the average of the general play rounds is only 20.8 - nearly seven shots different.
Am I going to be accused of artificially keeping a vanity handicap (of 17!)?

If the 7 shot differential was between 0 and +7 and you were entering elite competitions, then yes you might get looked at. But this is the sort of case that should be thrown up, scanned by the committee and more than likely no action taken.
If your differential was the other way round (20 in comps, 27.5 in GP) , then the system should highlight you for examination by the committee. As it is , the system doesn’t prompt this, the volunteers need to go and hunt for this info, which some do and some don’t.

 

[wjemather]

If EG (or clubs on instruction from EG) begin looking at differences between comp scores and general play scores then I'm likely to pop up on some report somewhere.
I've got 26 rounds on my handicap record in the last 12 months, 10 comps and 16 general play. The average score differential of the comp rounds is 27.5, the average of the general play rounds is only 20.8 - nearly seven shots different.
Am I going to be accused of artificially keeping a vanity handicap (of 17!)?

The only clubs who should possibly consider such a policy for entry are those running elite WAGR events, and for those events only. However, clubs may wish to look at a similar policy relating only to prizes in handicap comps, which would create much less work.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

If EG (or clubs on instruction from EG) begin looking at differences between comp scores and general play scores then I'm likely to pop up on some report somewhere.
I've got 26 rounds on my handicap record in the last 12 months, 10 comps and 16 general play. The average score differential of the comp rounds is 27.5, the average of the general play rounds is only 20.8 - nearly seven shots different.
Am I going to be accused of artificially keeping a vanity handicap (of 17!)?

Off a back tee CH of 8 I could accuse myself of trying to maintain a vanity SF handicap as I haven't submitted any cards over winter whatsoever. However - our course re-rating of CR and SR went 'live' on Saturday and that has bumped me up to 10...so I'm going to get a load of cards in to try and get back down to SFs. Yes I know that's a bit vain of me - but it's not as if I've got much in the way of great looks...

 

[3offTheTee]

We are on Page 101. Past number 100 ColinL.

Perhaps this thread should go to Room 101!

 

[Arthur Wedge]

World Handicap System manipulators are cheats - says R&A

Golf bosses are warning recreational players to avoid cheating on their handicaps.

www.bbc.co.uk

The R&A speak

And laughably they are even attempting to suggest it’s helped bring people to golf

 

[KenL]

World Handicap System manipulators are cheats - says R&A

Golf bosses are warning recreational players to avoid cheating on their handicaps.

www.bbc.co.uk

The R&A speak

And laughably they are even attempting to suggest it’s helped bring people to golf

Well actually, I have 2 pals with the Scottish Golf open access to a handicap and it has helped them play more and try and improve.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Well actually, I have 2 pals with the Scottish Golf open access to a handicap and it have helped them play more and try and improve.

Did they play golf before ?

It helped them play more in Opens ?

 

[KenL]

Did they play golf before ?

It helped them play more in Opens ?

Yes, they have played but they have played more often since taking this up.

Opens, no.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Yes, they have played but they have played more often since taking this up.

Opens, no.

Interesting

The main golf boom and increase in participation or people taking up golf happened after the first lockdown

What was stopping them from playing before ? Not having a handicap

 

[Captain_Black.]

Interestingly.
We have just had our first 2x Board comps of the season.
1st one won by a 21 H/C at 12 under H/C
2nd one won by a 24 H/C at 10 under H/C

Dunno why I bother with the comps tbh.
I would just be better off just putting in GP cards, cos their is no way I'm ever going to get near 10 under.

Club comps have effectively been ruined for anyone under about 15 H/C

 

[KenL]

Interesting

The main golf boom and increase in participation or people taking up golf happened after the first lockdown

What was stopping them from playing before ? Not having a handicap

Never been club members, the open play hcp has allowed them to get one. They are not fussed about opens, just playing with pals. The hcp gives them a yardstick to see if they are improving.

 

[Swango1980]

Interestingly.
We have just had our first 2x Board comps of the season.
1st one won by a 21 H/C at 12 under H/C
2nd one won by a 24 H/C at 10 under H/C

Dunno why I bother with the comps tbh.
I would just be better off just putting in GP cards, cos their is no way I'm ever going to get near 10 under.

Club comps have effectively been ruined for anyone under about 15 H/C

Would be interesting to know if these are golfers with new handicaps, or they have had handicaps for ages and somehow kept them high (unless tge results are an absolute once in a 100 score, which might be unlikely)

 

[IanM]

Interestingly.
We have just had our first 2x Board comps of the season.
1st one won by a 21 H/C at 12 under H/C
2nd one won by a 24 H/C at 10 under H/C

Dunno why I bother with the comps tbh.
I would just be better off just putting in GP cards, cos their is no way I'm ever going to get near 10 under.

Club comps have effectively been ruined for anyone under about 15 H/C

Only a few Board Comps at Newport. Certainly none where you can fail to break 80, and still get your name on the wall!

But, there's plenty of other stuff for folk of all abilities...

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Never been club members, the open play hcp has allowed them to get one. They are not fussed about opens, just playing with pals. The hcp gives them a yardstick to see if they are improving.

They could have sorted out a handicap before using various systems, many use the Igolf etc to allow them to be able to play in comps etc

Seems strange as a reason to not play because they didn’t have an official handicap when they don’t use it

They should enter opens etc to give them the full benefit

 

[KenL]

They could have sorted out a handicap before using various systems, many use the Igolf etc to allow them to be able to play in comps etc

Seems strange as a reason to not play because they didn’t have an official handicap when they don’t use it

They should enter opens etc to give them the full benefit

As I said, no interest other than playing with pals.

One has an index of 38, but is desperate to improve. Not sure playing opens would be for him or the strangers he would play with.

 

[clubchamp98]

Interestingly.
We have just had our first 2x Board comps of the season.
1st one won by a 21 H/C at 12 under H/C
2nd one won by a 24 H/C at 10 under H/C

Dunno why I bother with the comps tbh.
I would just be better off just putting in GP cards, cos their is no way I'm ever going to get near 10 under.

Club comps have effectively been ruined for anyone under about 15 H/C

I’m thinking this as well.
They have put up the entrance to £3.00 and a lot of lower guys are thinking this as well.

 

[rulefan]

1st one won by a 21 H/C at 12 under H/C
2nd one won by a 24 H/C at 10 under H/C

Doesn't really tell the whole story.
Did their recorded scores include many GP scores? Was there any indication of 'building a handicap'?
What was the proportion of mid cappers to low cappers in the comps?
How many low cappers in the top 10 of each event?

 

[IanM]

I've just looked on my Wales Golf App. I cannot see on there what was a competition and what was GP.

As I said, no interest other than playing with pals.

One has an index of 38, but is desperate to improve. Not sure playing opens would be for him or the strangers he would play with.

And good luck to them. Competitions are overrated

 

[Captain_Black.]

Doesn't really tell the whole story.
Did their recorded scores include many GP scores? Was there any indication of 'building a handicap'?
What was the proportion of mid cappers to low cappers in the comps?
How many low cappers in the top 10 of each event?

Don't bother.
I've heard all the excuses.
New player, returning player, a hot round, blah blah.
Yes, I fully accept that every now & again someone puts in a really hot round.
But, that should be an exception.
These sorts of scores are now the norm at my club, always from players with 20+ H/C
I'm so cheesed off with it.
I'm seriously thinking of packing it in altogether & doing something else.