Handicap cut the evening before a big game..

[pbrown7582]

There's so many reasons why the national comps get a bad name the OP enters without an active h/cap which it states you must have to enter.
His oppo then plays off a false h/cap (not sure how -5 results in 3 shot cut other than ESR?).
Result agreed and now you complain to organisers and he then says I can't play next 2 rounds????
This is a right can of worms.......

 

[Foxholer]

Seems to me that the 5 under (presumably net!) triggered an ESR.

While he might not have been aware of the ESR, the fact that a cut is likely means it's still his responsibility to check (cuts from Annual Review are different though - club is required to notify the player better than by simply publishing a list of changes). If that's the case, he should almost certainly have been playing of 13 in any case - at least adjusting his handicap against SSS and, if playing off a too high handicap, it's a DQ.

It would also seem reasonable that, after a very good round, it would be logical to check one's handicap before going to play a match! How did he find out about the change?

 

[vkurup]

Seems to me that the 5 under (presumably net!) triggered an ESR.

While he might not have been aware of the ESR, the fact that a cut is likely means it's still his responsibility to check (cuts from Annual Review are different though - club is required to notify the player better than by simply publishing a list of changes). If that's the case, he should almost certainly have been playing of 13 in any case - at least adjusting his handicap against SSS and, if playing off a too high handicap, it's a DQ.

It would also seem reasonable that, after a very good round, it would be logical to check one's handicap before going to play a match! How did he find out about the change?

After our round, we grabbed a drink and sat outside. Some of his club buddies came around and mentioned that he was going to get cut after his performance on Tuesday (that was the first time I heard about it). While still at the drink, one of the club member (probably part of the HC committee) signalled to him from the car park that he had been cut by 3.

BTW, what is a ESR? One of the guys who stopped by, mentioned that only 2 people had clocked under handicap this week.

 

[vkurup]

There's so many reasons why the national comps get a bad name the OP enters without an active h/cap which it states you must have to enter.
His oppo then plays off a false h/cap (not sure how -5 results in 3 shot cut other than ESR?).
Result agreed and now you complain to organisers and he then says I can't play next 2 rounds????
This is a right can of worms.......

I entered due to deadline, but was not expecting to play before getting my official card.

 

[Val]

Interesting.. can he claim that he was also not aware of it till we got back or that we both agreed at our individual HC of 14 & 18 before tee-ing off.

No, he will have had an idea it was coming unless his cut was an ESR and not a general play cut

 

[rosecott]

not sure how -5 results in 3 shot cut other than ESR

We're back again to people always quoting so many under par when that's not how handicap reductions are calculated. SSS is the benchmark, moderated to CSS according to performance of Cats 1 to 3. Depending on the relationship between par and SSS, and the variation which CSS introduces, it could be possible for a Cat 3 to lose 3 shots by playing 5 under par (I say this without calculating an example and after a nice bottle of shiraz).

 

[duncan mackie]

We're back again to people always quoting so many under par when that's not how handicap reductions are calculated. SSS is the benchmark, moderated to CSS according to performance of Cats 1 to 3. Depending on the relationship between par and SSS, and the variation which CSS introduces, it could be possible for a Cat 3 to lose 3 shots by playing 5 under par (I say this without calculating an example and after a nice bottle of shiraz).

par 72, sss74 (as ours today) original handicap 13.5 (14) new handicap 11.4 (11)

(no shiraz - but I'm still keeping out of the Rules issues on this one!)

 

[Bomber69]

Wow.....

What a can of worms this is, after reading all this I would expect both players to be booted out.

The OP should never have been in the competition in the first place and his opponent played of the wrong handicap, you just could not write this stuff. Where is Jeremy Beadle or that Big lass that used to be in Emmerdale......

 

[Val]

Wow.....

What a can of worms this is, after reading all this I would expect both players to be booted out.

The OP should never have been in the competition in the first place and his opponent played of the wrong handicap, you just could not write this stuff. Where is Jeremy Beadle or that Big lass that used to be in Emmerdale......

It's reasons like this that this comp should be avoided, Crawford had a guy last year with an inactive handicap if I remember correctly, add to that how late they play the reginal final then its losing attraction.

 

[6inchcup]

Um... shouldn't you have adjusted your own hcp in the interim after playing those Opens? Adjust based on SSS on the course until CSS is confirmed.

i must have missed something,I have never altered my own h/c as I rely on the club to give me an offical one based on the cards or information given,so if I have a few indifferent rounds I could just make a h/c up and then tell the h/c committee what my new one is,how many on this forum alters their own h/c without notification from the club ?

 

[Val]

i must have missed something,I have never altered my own h/c as I rely on the club to give me an offical one based on the cards or information given,so if I have a few indifferent rounds I could just make a h/c up and then tell the h/c committee what my new one is,how many on this forum alters their own h/c without notification from the club ?

You can move your HC down not up and you have to if you are playing in a comp. it's not difficult to do and it's your responsibility to do it, if you should be cut and don't do it then you should be DQ from the comp for playing with an incorrect HC

 

[Imurg]

i must have missed something,I have never altered my own h/c as I rely on the club to give me an offical one based on the cards or information given,so if I have a few indifferent rounds I could just make a h/c up and then tell the h/c committee what my new one is,how many on this forum alters their own h/c without notification from the club ?

If you've had a good round and are likely to get cut then you should play to the lower handicap using SSS as the marker.
Even if CSS changes and you don't actually go up, until the results are posted you must cut yourself. By not doing so you're playing off a handicap higher than you are alloted and therefore you should be DQ'd.
You don't raise your handicap in this method though, only cut.

This has been standard practice for more years than I care to remember - how is it that so many people don't know about it?

 

[Bomber69]

You can move your HC down not up and you have to if you are playing in a comp. it's not difficult to do and it's your responsibility to do it, if you should be cut and don't do it then you should be DQ from the comp for playing with an incorrect HC

100% correct Val.

Plus you should be booted out for entering a comp without an official handicap.

No excusses, it just stinks of cheating and is one of the reasons most folk avoid a lot of these sort of match play comps as they are just money making schemes and open to abuse.

 

[Bomber69]

It's reasons like this that this comp should be avoided, Crawford had a guy last year with an inactive handicap if I remember correctly, add to that how late they play the reginal final then its losing attraction.

Yeh I remember this from last year, too many cheats and high handicap players who only play to protect their handicaps all year long for these money/holiday prize competitions.

You only need to look at the Trilby Tour........

 

[6inchcup]

If you've had a good round and are likely to get cut then you should play to the lower handicap using SSS as the marker.
Even if CSS changes and you don't actually go up, until the results are posted you must cut yourself. By not doing so you're playing off a handicap higher than you are alloted and therefore you should be DQ'd.
You don't raise your handicap in this method though, only cut.

This has been standard practice for more years than I care to remember - how is it that so many people don't know about it?

Well I have learnt something new,in all the years of playing this is the first time I have heard this,what would happen if I worked my h/c out and played to that but the h/c committee decided I should be off a lower h/c.

 

[North Mimms]

Well I have learnt something new,in all the years of playing this is the first time I have heard this,what would happen if I worked my h/c out and played to that but the h/c committee decided I should be off a lower h/c.

This gets discussed on this forum on average once a week....

 

[Val]

Well I have learnt something new,in all the years of playing this is the first time I have heard this,what would happen if I worked my h/c out and played to that but the h/c committee decided I should be off a lower h/c.

You get DQ but its unlikely that they would calculate less than you unless they give an ESR which you would never have known about.

 

[duncan mackie]

Well I have learnt something new,in all the years of playing this is the first time I have heard this,what would happen if I worked my h/c out and played to that but the h/c committee decided I should be off a lower h/c.

you're responsibility is to adjust your handicap to the SSS and your score, until the CSS becomes known to you at which point you are responsible for adjusting it to that.

the handicap committee is responsible for notifying you of any adjustments outwith the system generated ones, and it's recomended that this goes beyond simply posting them to the handicap board.

handicap increases only apply when posted/notified

 

[rosecott]

Well I have learnt something new,in all the years of playing this is the first time I have heard this,what would happen if I worked my h/c out and played to that but the h/c committee decided I should be off a lower h/c.

Nothing, provided you had reduced your handicap according to the rules - rocket science it is not.

 

[pbrown7582]

Nothing, provided you had reduced your handicap according to the rules - rocket science it is not.

It is our own responsibility to know the rules regarding handicap as much as it is for what to do if we go OOB or lose a ball, not knowing a rule is not an excuse. Unless your Tiger! :lol: