Flag in / flag out debate

[jim8flog]

Most of my regular PP’s leave it in, I have found the guys who ask for it out are mostly seniors.
Dons tin hat

Maybe that is because they have played golf for a lot longer and hence have seen a lot more bounce outs after hitting the flag than young new players. Sometimes experience guides what we do now.

 

[Backsticks]

Maybe that is because they have played golf for a lot longer and hence have seen a lot more bounce outs after hitting the flag than young new players. Sometimes experience guides what we do now.

How would that be possible ? Those playing golf for a lot longer should never have seen putts bounce out after hitting the flag ???

 

[Imurg]

We're mostly leave it in putters...a couple I play with want it out and its not an issue..
I'll ask for it to be put back in if I'm still putting...these days the hole just looks wrong and it feels weird having the flag out....

 

[clubchamp98]

The issue seems to be an aversion to having to play hokey-kokey. Though correct me if I’m wrong but it seems to be the ‘flag-inners’ who do most complaining on that front when all that ‘outers’ are doing is exercising their historical precedence and right under the rules. Indeed the ‘outers’ could equally complain but, in my experience at least, they don’t.

For me it seems the “in” brigade are obsessed with saving time, why I don’t know.
it might take 5 seconds to take it out.
But then we wait on the next tee.
we have a choice so I will be having it in for long putts and out anything under 15/20 ft.

 

[clubchamp98]

How would that be possible ? Those playing golf for a lot longer should never have seen putts bounce out after hitting the flag ???

Practice time or putting from off the green comes to mind.!

 

[clubchamp98]

I confirmed yesterday that I am definite flag out guy.

I hit the flagstick with the tee shot on the 230 par 3 hole yesterday and the ball finished off the green

That’s pretty poor .
send your caddy to attend it.

 

[Mandofred]

For me it seems the “in” brigade are obsessed with saving time, why I don’t know.
it might take 5 seconds to take it out.
But then we wait on the next tee.
we have a choice so I will be having it in for long putts and out anything under 15/20 ft.

I don't see that myself. Nobody I know who leave it in is doing it to save time. People just don't see a benefit to taking it out......and why bother if there is no obvious advantage? The only real benefit seems to be all in a persons head.....if they think it's better in, it is. If they think it's better out, then it is. If you are just too lazy to care (me) since I don't see any advantage either way....in it stays.

 

[clubchamp98]

I don't see that myself. Nobody I know who leave it in is doing it to save time. People just don't see a benefit to taking it out......and why bother if there is no obvious advantage? The only real benefit seems to be all in a persons head.....if they think it's better in, it is. If they think it's better out, then it is. If you are just too lazy to care (me) since I don't see any advantage either way....in it stays.

It has been mentioned in the past!
I like it out.
some like it in that’s fine.
first world problem .imo
we should all do what we choose.

 

[The Fader]

Yes totally agree.
But can’t see what the problem is.
everyone has the choice to have the flag as they want it.
But some are not satisfied with this choice and want everyone to bow to their wishes.
where anywhere else would you be unsatisfied with a choice. I just don’t understand it!

And this, unfortunately, sums up the general tone of this forum perfectly!

Well said CC.

 

[Mandofred]

It has been mentioned in the past!
I like it out.
some like it in that’s fine.
first world problem .imo
we should all do what we choose.

Well hold on now.....you kind of mentioned earlier that the people who want to leave the flag in are doing it to save time.....is that what you really think?

I leave the flag in out of plain ol' laziness. Everybody else that I know of do it for the same reason. They don't see an advantage either way.....so why bother.

Again......please Oakdale....buy some bloody skinny bottom flags!!!! Just in case the people with money at my club read this site......not likely. I don't know why the whole world hasn't bought these things.

 

[Deleted member 31467]

Virtually every pro takes the flag out and they are playing for big money. Enough said.

 

[clubchamp98]

Well hold on now.....you kind of mentioned earlier that the people who want to leave the flag in are doing it to save time.....is that what you really think?

I leave the flag in out of plain ol' laziness. Everybody else that I know of do it for the same reason. They don't see an advantage either way.....so why bother.

Again......please Oakdale....buy some bloody skinny bottom flags!!!! Just in case the people with money at my club read this site......not likely. I don't know why the whole world hasn't bought these things.

Plenty of people were saying it will save time if the flag is left in And no Hokey Cokey.

nothing wrong in laziness that’s your choice.

So why do you want skinny flags if you think there is no difference

 

[Backsticks]

Practice time or putting from off the green comes to mind.!

They shouldnt really though. Such finger in the air judgements, in different cases, are comprehensively trumped by the studies be the R&A and USGA, which either conclusively show that there is no difference, or including other studies, that the margins are so small that the matter is inconclusive either way. And debate is focused on scientific methodology.

So for practical purposes, there is no difference, and people choosing one or the other on a scientific bases are ill informed.

Those arguing on the mental aspect, habit, or simply an unwillingness to change or be flexible, have a stronger case. Preferring one over the other may well in itself help you putt better. But they should acknowledge the fact that their mental weakness, of a preference for one over the other and sticking to it, is leading to the out in out in tango, and wasting time.

Anyone asking for flag out, or, flag back in again, forfeits any right to complain about slow play, ever.

 

[Mandofred]

So why do you want skinny flags if you think there is no difference

With "normal" sized flags (not fat....not thin...nebulous topic) it's a toss-up whether it helps/hurts. With skinny bottom flags......slam dunk in my opinion.....BETTER than taking the flag out. Skinny flags change the whole argument. Next best thing to making the hole larger.....

At one of my last clubs....showed up one day and they had Godzilla flags in. Things were larger than normal.......why? I started taking the flags out more......

 

[clubchamp98]

They shouldnt really though. Such finger in the air judgements, in different cases, are comprehensively trumped by the studies be the R&A and USGA, which either conclusively show that there is no difference, or including other studies, that the margins are so small that the matter is inconclusive either way. And debate is focused on scientific methodology.

So for practical purposes, there is no difference, and people choosing one or the other on a scientific bases are ill informed.

Those arguing on the mental aspect, habit, or simply an unwillingness to change or be flexible, have a stronger case. Preferring one over the other may well in itself help you putt better. But they should acknowledge the fact that their mental weakness, of a preference for one over the other and sticking to it, is leading to the out in out in tango, and wasting time.

Anyone asking for flag out, or, flag back in again, forfeits any right to complain about slow play, ever.

Science and golf dont mix imo.
I know people with lucky underpants!!

no two putts are the same so science proves nothing imo. Even robots miss putts.
Golfers are prone to mental aspects and that won’t change anytime soon.

 

[clubchamp98]

With "normal" sized flags (not fat....not thin...nebulous topic) it's a toss-up whether it helps/hurts. With skinny bottom flags......slam dunk in my opinion.....BETTER than taking the flag out. Skinny flags change the whole argument. Next best thing to making the hole larger.....

At one of my last clubs....showed up one day and they had Godzilla flags in. Things were larger than normal.......why? I started taking the flags out more......

That’s the answer then!
Take it out and it dosnt matter how fat or skinny they are.

 

[Mandofred]

That’s the answer then!
Take it out and it dosnt matter how fat or skinny they are.

Unless leaving it in helps your aiming.....just a thought. Between that.....and being too lazy to take the flag out...... You need to give me a GOOD reason to take the flag out, you haven't done it so far...and haven't seen proof making it so.... Other than it might help your brain putt better......and that's a good reason....but doesn't make a difference in my brain. If there were studies absolutely PROVING that taking the flag out was absolutely better....I'd start taking the flag out and get used to it. But there isn't........

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Maybe it’s time to get rid of flags completely? Solves the problem of in or out.

 

[Mandofred]

Maybe it’s time to get rid of flags completely? Solves the problem of in or out.

You'd need to make the hole a LOT bigger for me to see it from very far away. Maybe flashing lights from the bottom of the cup......hey LIV!!!....that might be an idea.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Unless leaving it in helps your aiming.....just a thought. Between that.....and being too lazy to take the flag out...... You need to give me a GOOD reason to take the flag out, you haven't done it so far...and haven't seen proof making it so.... Other than it might help your brain putt better......and that's a good reason....but doesn't make a difference in my brain. If there were studies absolutely PROVING that taking the flag out was absolutely better....I'd start taking the flag out and get used to it. But there isn't........

BIB …because I prefer to see all of the hole unimpeded by a flag stick…that’s the gist of it.

….besides…with flag in I find I focus more on the line to the flag than the borrow I must take into account. It’s as if the flagstick becomes a target when in fact it isn’t…getting the ball into the hole is the objective, not hitting a target.