Flag in / flag out debate

[Pants]

It was very noticeable last weekend at Augusta that the majority of putts seemed to be with the flag out. In fact, it was even rarely attended. Have the Pros now realised that it makes sense?

 

[Orikoru]

Most pros always stuck with pins out. I believe their rationale was purely about sticking with what they're used to - flag in looked odd to them and put them off so they figured why change. I think it was only Bryson and Fitzpatrick out of the top pros who really started leaving them in.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

I recall there was a study published last year in the US that revealed that it was far better to have the flag out in terms of number of putts holed. Key factor was speed of ball arriving at hole I believe.

 

[sjw]

I recall there was a study published last year in the US that revealed that it was far better to have the flag out in terms of number of putts holed. Key factor was speed of ball arriving at hole I believe.

I'm sure I saw another study that said it makes near as dammit no difference...

 

[Alan Clifford]

For me, it depends on the pole. !st week in South Africa this year I had two putts bounce off the flag stick and saw someone else's do the same thing. So I switched to taking the pin out. At my club in England, when the ball hits the stick, the stick seems to absorb all the energy.

 

[LincolnShep]

If I was playing for millions, I might care about it; but I'm not, so I don't.

 

[sweaty sock]

If there was a clear advantage either way it would be easy to prove and universally adopted, as we are, I think we can conclude its marginal at best and unlikley to make a difference

 

[sweaty sock]

Except if there are two players in the same group who demand a flag in flag out hokey cokey is performed.

In that case its universally slower, and more petty for everyone.

 

[BiMGuy]

Out! Helps to stop the hole becoming deformed

 

[Mandofred]

The VAST majority of times I've hit the flag on putts.....the flagstick has helped. If I hit the ball the right speed....just doesn't make any difference. I've played with guys who every time the ball hits the flag and doesn't go in....they blame the flag....not the fact that their ball was going 50mph. Very occasionally I've thought my ball just might have gone in if it hadn't hit the flag...but then again...I hit it too hard. AND.....if the club would just buy those skinny bottom flags I don't think it would be an issue for all but the most flag paranoid people.

 

[Orikoru]

The VAST majority of times I've hit the flag on putts.....the flagstick has helped. If I hit the ball the right speed....just doesn't make any difference. I've played with guys who every time the ball hits the flag and doesn't go in....they blame the flag....not the fact that their ball was going 50mph. Very occasionally I've thought my ball just might have gone in if it hadn't hit the flag...but then again...I hit it too hard. AND.....if the club would just buy those skinny bottom flags I don't think it would be an issue for all but the most flag paranoid people.

Yeah I think this is mostly true. For putts that are directly on the centre of the hole but a bit too quick, the flagstick will help by taking the sting out of it and make it more likely to drop. For all other scenarios - off-centre, much too hard, etc, it makes no difference. Sometimes hitting the flag would leave it a foot away rather than two feet if it rolls over the hole I guess, but that's about it.

That said, there is still merit to the mental aspect and what you prefer to look at. I leave the flag in for post of my putts, but for anything I'm thinking about holing I do sometimes take it out, just to take it out of the equation and make the hole 'look bigger'. For long range putts and tap-ins it stays in because that's quicker.

 

[Robster59]

Because I've putted more with the flag out than in, I still ask for the flag to be out on certain occassions. It maybe a mental thing but I'm more comfortable that way.

 

[jim8flog]

I have said on previous threads about the subject I prefer to aim at a target that is 4.25 inches rather then one which is 2 inches.

I will some times leave it in in a friendly knockabout but never a comp

The commentators also noted that only one player was leaving the flag in last week - Fitzpatrick.

 

[Yorkshire Hacker]

Missed a putt by about 7 inches last week. Stepped up for a tap in with the flag in......the ball hit the flag pole, and bounced straight back at me!!
That's it for me..........unless I'm a fair way away, it's flag out every time!

 

[rulefan]

Hasn't this been done to death by now. There have been umpteen studies done. Many with different testing parameters and methodology. Conclusions split 50/50 except for those few which concluded 'it comes down to personal preference'.

 

[Robster59]

Hasn't this been done to death by now. There have been umpteen studies done. Many with different testing parameters and methodology. Conclusions split 50/50 except for those few which concluded 'it comes down to personal preference'.

 

[wjemather]

I recall there was a study published last year in the US that revealed that it was far better to have the flag out in terms of number of putts holed. Key factor was speed of ball arriving at hole I believe.

There was a study (with questionable methodology and analysis) that was widely reported with an incredibly misleading headline to that effect.

I'm sure I saw another study that said it makes near as dammit no difference...

This is the actual conclusion of that same study.

 

[Mandofred]

Missed a putt by about 7 inches last week. Stepped up for a tap in with the flag in......the ball hit the flag pole, and bounced straight back at me!!
That's it for me..........unless I'm a fair way away, it's flag out every time!

Yep.....not because you hit the ball too hard........It's actually happened to me. I hit it too hard. Me. Not the flags fault.

 

[timd77]

I’m flag in and it’s 100% mental. I got used to it during covid, and then when we could then take the flag out again the first round I played I couldn’t putt for toffee.

My regular playing partner doesn’t mind either way and not do many others (apart from certain putts) but when I play with someone always wants it out it can become a bit difficult, in out, in out. I’ve tried with it out a couple of more times and I just really struggle.

It’s either mental or there’s something about it that helps, either I can see it better out of the corner of my eye, or it gives me something to aim at. I’m not sure, but I’d love to conform and be an outy!

 

[Backsticks]

An influencing factor is whether the holes have the thin plastic liners around the top, over the cup proper. Never the case in elite golf, so the soil takes the hit with a lower COR than the plastic strip.

Rulesies - can you have a local rule forbidding flag removal ?