Flag in / flag out debate

[Backsticks]

BIB …because I prefer to see all of the hole unimpeded by a flag stick…that’s the gist of it.

….besides…with flag in I find I focus more on the line to the flag than the borrow I must take into account. It’s as if the flagstick becomes a target when in fact it isn’t…getting the ball into the hole is the objective, not hitting a target.

Which is fair enough. Its a good reason, in that you have a mental hang up about being distracted by the flagstick, but not the hole itself.
On the physics of a ball dropping good reason, there isnt one though, which I guess is banjofred's angle.
The rules allow the option. So perfectly legitimate for people to choose whichever the prefer. Where we need to move to is everyone being happy with it in, and irrational hangups, and habits of the past, being discarded. It would be one step improvement in the pace of play for those concerned about that. For those unconcerned about slow play, they can flag out flag in flag out, as they wish.

 

[clubchamp98]

Unless leaving it in helps your aiming.....just a thought. Between that.....and being too lazy to take the flag out...... You need to give me a GOOD reason to take the flag out, you haven't done it so far...and haven't seen proof making it so.... Other than it might help your brain putt better......and that's a good reason....but doesn't make a difference in my brain. If there were studies absolutely PROVING that taking the flag out was absolutely better....I'd start taking the flag out and get used to it. But there isn't........

The hole looks smaller to me with the flag in.
I like to slam it in the back of the hole. Short putts only.
If I do this with the flag in it has to be perfect or the flag is deflecting it wide.
purley my choice and I respect the choice of my pps.
if that means in out so be it.

 

[AussieKB]

I take the flag out, and when I play in a four where 2 want it in and 2 want it out, forever removing it or putting it back, how this helps speed up the game is a mystery to me, and I think that is what is needed most these days, rounds over 4 hours is ridiculous.

 

[Backsticks]

I take the flag out, and when I play in a four where 2 want it in and 2 want it out, forever removing it or putting it back, how this helps speed up the game is a mystery to me, and I think that is what is needed most these days, rounds over 4 hours is ridiculous.

It doesnt help speed up the game, nor was out in out in intended to.

It was expected that most, and certainly those interested in speeding up play, would act sensibly, and all leave the flag in. Or at worst, even if they prefer it in, once out, would still play out with it out.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Which is fair enough. Its a good reason, in that you have a mental hang up about being distracted by the flagstick, but not the hole itself.
On the physics of a ball dropping good reason, there isnt one though, which I guess is banjofred's angle.
The rules allow the option. So perfectly legitimate for people to choose whichever the prefer. Where we need to move to is everyone being happy with it in, and irrational hangups, and habits of the past, being discarded. It would be one step improvement in the pace of play for those concerned about that. For those unconcerned about slow play, they can flag out flag in flag out, as they wish.

BIB - sorry but that is (and it’s very rare for me to say this) arrant nonsense. And it ain’t any more of a mental hangup than any of the others we all have - after all - do we not all accept that much of our game is played out between our ears?

Take that line of thought and before long we’ll be being told that we must alway use carts, that carrying your bag is an irrational hangup and habit of the past - to be discarded.

I’ve had a thought…dangerous I know…let’s all just have the flag out as that would speed things up if that’s the thing. But the truth is, this whole ‘speed of play’ argument is a load of tosh, an argument with little if any basis in fact given, and relative to, all the things that happen in a round that add to the time taken; an argument used to try and justify what one group of players want at the expense of the rest. And that’s not the way of our game - a game that has, at its core, values of respect, acceptance and consideration to all other players. I respect the wishes of players who wish the flag in and of course I do not complain, I expect exactly the same in return if I want it out.

 

[Crow]

Part of the reason for being able to leave the flag in, which everyone seems to have forgotten, was to remove the penalty incurred for hitting it (while it was still in the hole) when putting.

But it seems to have developed into one if golf's hot topics of debate, aren't we all a little bit pathetic?

 

[AussieKB]

Part of the reason for being able to leave the flag in, which everyone seems to have forgotten, was to remove the penalty incurred for hitting it when putting.

But it seems to have developed into one if golf's hot topics of debate, aren't we all a little bit pathetic?

I've been playing for over 50 years and never seen someone hit a flagstick while putting on the green.

 

[Robster59]

I've been playing for over 50 years and never seen someone hit a flagstick while putting on the green.

I have, when somebody was too slow removing the pin.

I've not been on for a few days. I can't believe this thread has now gone to 6 pages.

 

[sunshine]

 

[Orikoru]

I have, when somebody was too slow removing the pin.

I've not been on for a few days. I can't believe this thread has now gone to 6 pages.

I can.. it's a classic 'hot topic' along with dress codes, changing shoes in the car park, and pink castle tees. It's never going away.

 

[Neilds]

Is the flag in/out/in/out during a round actually a thing? I think most people who leave the flag in don't actually 'need' it in but more that they don't mind it being in. Anyone who actually asks (demands?) it to be put back in would be a very rare beast imo (and a bit of a numpty!)

 

[Orikoru]

Is the flag in/out/in/out during a round actually a thing? I think most people who leave the flag in don't actually 'need' it in but more that they don't mind it being in. Anyone who actually asks (demands?) it to be put back in would be a very rare beast imo (and a bit of a numpty!)

At my club, most people I play with leave it in. As stated by @banjofred on the last page, most people are not bothered enough either way, so it stays in because that's how it was when you got there. If I'm playing with someone who takes it out then I mostly just leave it out, but the only time I do ask for it to be put back in is when I have a quick downhill put, because if I overcook it and it hits the flag that slows it down more than just lipping out and rolling another 4-5 feet. There are loads of downhill putts you could have at my course as well.

 

[Crow]

I've been playing for over 50 years and never seen someone hit a flagstick while putting on the green.

I've edited my comment for you, hopefully it reads easier now.

 

[Imurg]

Is the flag in/out/in/out during a round actually a thing? I think most people who leave the flag in don't actually 'need' it in but more that they don't mind it being in. Anyone who actually asks (demands?) it to be put back in would be a very rare beast imo (and a bit of a numpty!)

Cheers
In the same way that many prefer the flag out, I prefer it in.
It looks and feels strange to me so if the flag is out.. it goes back in.
And if this slows play down by 3.5 seconds per green then, quite frankly, too bad.
I more than make up for it by not taking 3 practice swings that never resemble the real thing, marking my card on the next tee and walking briskly between shots...

 

[Backsticks]

Cheers
In the same way that many prefer the flag out, I prefer it in.
It looks and feels strange to me so if the flag is out.. it goes back in.
And if this slows play down by 3.5 seconds per green then, quite frankly, too bad.
I more than make up for it by not taking 3 practice swings that never resemble the real thing, marking my card on the next tee and walking briskly between shots...

Everybody has their thing though. And it is the accumulation of all these micro actions that has slowed down play. Everyone says : it only takes me a few seconds, or, i dont take 3 practice swings, or, I walk quickly between shots, or whatever.
But it is flag out in out, or range finders, or stepping back and 'visualising', or aimpoint, or putting the glove on off on off, or fiddling with a shot tracker, etc that ALL add to slow play. It doesnt matter that one doesnt do all of them. Its that so many gimmicks have been copied from TV pros, that were not there decades ago, that give us the 4.5 hour round. These actions didnt exist. NOBODY did them. So everyone was quicker.
Flag hokey cokey isnt a culprit on its own. Its just another one added to the list.

 

[Orikoru]

Everybody has their thing though. And it is the accumulation of all these micro actions that has slowed down play. Everyone says : it only takes me a few seconds, or, i dont take 3 practice swings, or, I walk quickly between shots, or whatever.
But it is flag out in out, or range finders, or stepping back and 'visualising', or aimpoint, or putting the glove on off on off, or fiddling with a shot tracker, etc that ALL add to slow play. It doesnt matter that one doesnt do all of them. Its that so many gimmicks have been copied from TV pros, that were not there decades ago, that give us the 4.5 hour round. These actions didnt exist. NOBODY did them. So everyone was quicker.
Flag hokey cokey isnt a culprit on its own. Its just another one added to the list.

You make it sound like we should blindly run up to the ball, grab a club at random and give it a smack before running after it again! Are we allowed to actually aim at a target at least or does that take too long as well??

 

[Deleted member 29109]

You make it sound like we should blindly run up to the ball, grab a club at random and give it a smack before running after it again! Are we allowed to actually aim at a target at least or does that take too long as well??

One club, and don’t stop when hitting the ball. We’ll be round in an hour and a half.

I do laugh when we hear stories from the old times claiming a 4 ball were playing 18 in 2 hours.

 

[clubchamp98]

Is the flag in/out/in/out during a round actually a thing? I think most people who leave the flag in don't actually 'need' it in but more that they don't mind it being in. Anyone who actually asks (demands?) it to be put back in would be a very rare beast imo (and a bit of a numpty!)

Not sure numpty is apt.
I have only met one .
but it’s their choice ,within the rules so not a problem.

 

[clubchamp98]

You make it sound like we should blindly run up to the ball, grab a club at random and give it a smack before running after it again! Are we allowed to actually aim at a target at least or does that take too long as well??

Well it is an Olympic sport so world records are good.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Everybody has their thing though. And it is the accumulation of all these micro actions that has slowed down play. Everyone says : it only takes me a few seconds, or, i dont take 3 practice swings, or, I walk quickly between shots, or whatever.
But it is flag out in out, or range finders, or stepping back and 'visualising', or aimpoint, or putting the glove on off on off, or fiddling with a shot tracker, etc that ALL add to slow play. It doesnt matter that one doesnt do all of them. Its that so many gimmicks have been copied from TV pros, that were not there decades ago, that give us the 4.5 hour round. These actions didnt exist. NOBODY did them. So everyone was quicker.
Flag hokey cokey isnt a culprit on its own. Its just another one added to the list.

Having the flag out cannot be a cause of slow play as we basically always had to have it out, therefore today asking for the flag to be removed cannot be a contributing factor to present day increased duration of rounds.

Flag hokey-cokey has only come about as a result of the change in the rule that allows us to leave it in.