DMD's on phones - I wish they would sort it properly

[Canfordhacker]

As for the argument about the potential to use other features on the phone to assist, i thought golf was a game of trust ? Maybe we should ban all comps that aren't drawn, maybe we should never allow anybody to look for there ball alone, maybe we should have a scrutineer at the first tee on every course checking the grooves on players clubs ?

I get the rules, but for me this says it. For every person using a compass on their phone to help with a golf shot there will be hundreds of people improving their lie in the rough. I'm trusted to carry but not use a real compass. My phone doesn't have an inclinometer, thermometer or barometer. But it can access info that is based on a weather station miles away from the shot I'm playing. It just doesn't feel right to me, but yes, I will abide by it.

If a criminal law was so far off the mark it would be headline news.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I've been thinking of getting a GPS for the last year and really liked the watch type ones. My 3 playing partners all have one so put it off as I would just ask them if I was stuck so defered my decision. Just recently I've played better ive played better just pacing from the markers and using my eyes and brain, well I'm playing better! Too many times I've changed clubs using the yardage given and ended up short or long. At my level I don't need precise distances any way. So for the foreseeable future I'm out.

Good post this I think - your subconscious golfing brain works out effort, hand speed etc for the distance it believes the shot to be. The brain might be wrong in respect of yardage but I suspect that more often than not it plays the shot for the distance it sees - and often it won't matter if the it got it wrong. Throwing into the mix an actual accurate distance measurement that the subconscious may not agree with I think introduces unnecessary confusion in the mind. But that is just me and my golf.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I'm sure that no one denies you the right to whinge as often as you wish!

I do disagree with the "advantage" comment though. There is nothing in golf, other than natural talent, that I can have that you can't have so, to me, the suggestion that my ball, clubs, shoes, electric trolley or DMD gives me an advantage over you is a fallacy, it is your choice whether you equip yourself to the same level as a fellow competitor, so in that respect, if anything, it is you placing yourself at a dis-advantage.

Though in this instance (thankfully for a change) it is not me you are disagreeing with - but R3 who is actually stating what he finds out to be true. The DMD helps him because I believe he is a typical golfer who did not and has never paced out every shot - especially given distance markers are known to be of dubious and of inconsistent accuracy.

 

[NorfolkShaun]

I have a DMD, a Garmin G6 (which I bought second hand). I find this very helpful as i'm not the best at judging distances being still relatively new to golf. I know some peoples means are less than others but to most that play golf as DMD is an affordable accessory, some units are available for just over £100 new and secondhand units can be cheaper.

I have seen people in comps using a phone as a DMD and generally they say they did not know they were not allowed to use their phone.

As an accessory I do think they can speed up play when used properly.

I have to say I cannot see a problem with phone apps being used as a DMD, however as mentioned I do think Garmin Skycaddie etc would have quite a lot to say were a £5 app be allowed to replace a £200 DMD, I believe that phones as a DMD will never be allowed though.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I have a DMD, a Garmin G6 (which I bought second hand). I find this very helpful as i'm not the best at judging distances being still relatively new to golf. I know some peoples means are less than others but to most that play golf as DMD is an affordable accessory, some units are available for just over £100 new and secondhand units can be cheaper.

I have seen people in comps using a phone as a DMD and generally they say they did not know they were not allowed to use their phone.

As an accessory I do think they can speed up play when used properly.

I have to say I cannot see a problem with phone apps being used as a DMD, however as mentioned I do think Garmin Skycaddie etc would have quite a lot to say were a £5 app be allowed to replace a £200 DMD, I believe that phones as a DMD will never be allowed though.

Strikes me that dedicated DMDs are the gas lamp of today's golf. Phone companies and apps suppliers just won't accept a banning of the use of phones and phone apps - or they will find some way around it. That's what happens when you open up an aspect of the game to technlogy - you open a can of worms and the game loses control to commercial interests. Which is a pity.

Meanwhile - with phones and apps the game struggles to enforce it's rules through ignorance or deliberate disobedience by players - not something the game would put up with it seems to me in any other context (see putter anchoring - banned as it got out of control and contravened the 'spirit' of the game)

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I have a DMD, a Garmin G6 (which I bought second hand). I find this very helpful as i'm not the best at judging distances being still relatively new to golf. I know some peoples means are less than others but to most that play golf as DMD is an affordable accessory, some units are available for just over £100 new and secondhand units can be cheaper.

...though if you read earlier in this discussion you will find at least one poster who does not have one due to either the expense or justifying the expense.

 

[NorfolkShaun]

...though if you read earlier in this discussion you will find at least one poster who does not have one due to either the expense or justifying the expense.

Hence why I stated most

 

[G1BB0]

golf is so stuck up it own 'arris its beyond belief, even with a compass and weather app we still have to make the swing and hit the bloody thing. If I had 137, x degrees north by nothwest wind at 5 mph, 10 degree's air temp I would either nail it or shank/top/fat

The pros wait 10 minutes for the wind to drop with exact yardages and elevation in their little books anyway!

I wonder if the R & A, USGA etc get backhanders from Garmin etc cos otherwise they would be out of business pretty darn quick

 

[Foxholer]

I wonder if the R & A, USGA etc get backhanders from Garmin etc cos otherwise they would be out of business pretty darn quick

I don't believe that happens - even through sponsorship etc. Golf is rather different from FIFA!

I believe the authorities may be aware of the effect some of their rulings could have on these businesses though and that might colour some rulings.

 

[G1BB0]

its either cash backhanders or a severe backwards mentality with regards technology and the advancement of golf imho

 

[Foxholer]

its either cash backhanders or a severe backwards mentality with regards technology and the advancement of golf imho

Not in my opinion!

Determined to uphold the fundamental traditions maybe. Certainly can't accuse them of not being interested in the advancement of Golf though!

 

[TheClaw]

Good post this I think - your subconscious golfing brain works out effort, hand speed etc for the distance it believes the shot to be. The brain might be wrong in respect of yardage but I suspect that more often than not it plays the shot for the distance it sees - and often it won't matter if the it got it wrong. Throwing into the mix an actual accurate distance measurement that the subconscious may not agree with I think introduces unnecessary confusion in the mind. But that is just me and my golf.

Only a good post because you agree with it. I'm hopeless at judging distances. Played at a strange course yesterday and tried to judge the distance to bunkers at a few different holes. Was miles out when I checked on the GPS.

How can an actual distance confuse the mind? Trust issues?

 

[HawkeyeMS]

golf is so stuck up it own 'arris its beyond belief, even with a compass and weather app we still have to make the swing and hit the bloody thing. If I had 137, x degrees north by nothwest wind at 5 mph, 10 degree's air temp I would either nail it or shank/top/fat

The pros wait 10 minutes for the wind to drop with exact yardages and elevation in their little books anyway!

I wonder if the R & A, USGA etc get backhanders from Garmin etc cos otherwise they would be out of business pretty darn quick

I think Garmin have enough other products to keep them going.

 

[NorfolkShaun]

I agree i'm sure Garmin do, however as Gibbo said I do think golf is a bit stuck up its self and I don't see phone apps being allowed.

On the matter of backhanders I'm not sure this is going on I mean what ever next MP's making the most of their expenses.....

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I agree i'm sure Garmin do, however as Gibbo said I do think golf is a bit stuckOn the matter of backhanders I'm not sure this is going on I mean what ever next MP's making the most of their expenses.....

Oh I'm sure the ruling bodies in time will be forced to accept phones as their current stance could be seen as being restraint of trade. I strongly suspect the subtleties and nuances of the rules of golf and a golfers 'honesty' will be great irrelevances in the eyes of lawyers claiming restraint of trade on behalf of the phone manufacturers. Matter of time really I think.

 

[Imurg]

Just a point on that - the phone manufacturers have little or nothing to do with Apps that are written for them. HTC, Samsung and Apple don't design their phones with golf gps in mind.

 

[G1BB0]

Garmin was a crap bvrand to use on my behalf but skycaddie for sure would be reeling initially. I just feel most phones nowadays are smart phones, if these can be encompassed into golf then surely it broadens the sports overall attraction maybe?

 

[NorfolkShaun]

While I understand what you are saying. This brings in the argument of mobile phone use on the course again, this is mainly why I do not think they will be allowed.

Mobile phone apps have their place in the market, they are a good cheap introduction to DMD for anyone with a smart phone to trial while not in comps (where phone are permitted on course)

Then as I did if you feel you would like a DMD you have an cost effective way to trial before you buy a dedicated DMD.

 

[G1BB0]

anyway it isnt going to happen in the forseeable so either fork out the extra £££ or go to specsavers

 

[Fellwalker]

I read this thread having searched the web for why I'd been told I could not use my phone. The title of the thread says it for me - "I wish they would sort it properly"

The Rules of Golf state very specifically
"A multi-functional device, such as a smartphone or PDA, may be used as a
distance measuring device provided it contains a distance measuring application
that meets all of the above limitations (i.e. it must measure distance only)."

Why mention a smartphone, when there only appear to be ancient devices (iPhone 3G is mentioned above, which was sold from 2008 to 2010) that actually comply? These are the rules 2012 - 2015.

The rule does not mention compass or barometer, though both of those are mentioned in the thread several times as if they are the rule.

The rules says I cannot use any device or equipment
a. That might assist him in making a stroke or in his play; or
b. For the purpose of gauging or measuring distance or conditions that
might affect his play

"might" :rofl:is a ridiculous statement. There is no way in reality that having knowledge of the compass direction (for which I would need to download an app) will help me play my game. Yes I've seen comments above about that it helps to assess the wind, but really... either it gusts around and moves direction, or you can flipping well feel it. There is no way that knowing the barometric pressure (if indeed I could get to it on my phone) would help me. But somehow, because it "might", I apparently cannot use my phone which has both. I do not comprehend that, and neither is in the R&A November 2009 statement.

A quick look at for example, the Garmin Approach G6, shows me that it "averages how far you hit each club". That can most definitely "assist him in making a stroke or in his play" yet the R&A November 2009 statement says it is OK!

The skycaddie SGX says "IntelliGreen Pro is another proprietary feature that adds distances to major green contours, false fronts, front carry and back distances — plus any other point on the green from your angle of attack". Looking at the screen shot in the instruction book, it even maps those contours on the green! Surely even knowing where a contour is assists the player? Especially if from where you are you cannot see it.

Several of this thread's contributors have mentioned the Skycaddie. This costs £250 or so plus after 30 days, £30 pa for even BASIC GREEN INFORMATION, compared to my phone app which cost a one off £10, with user updates continually. That subscription is not what I would call nominal (as Golf Monthly's review does). The price differential is such that the rules are actually discriminating against many.

I have tried course planners bought at various courses I have visited, but my experience is that every one of them had errors, or was out of date such that it meant I went in a new bunker or hit what my shot saver told me was the right distance to find it had changed. On one course in Scotland, we went up the wrong fairway because we had no compass and the map was misleading. I've had difficulty several times knowing where to go, despite planners, and I have given up buying them.

I know for a fact that there are many players who use an app on their phone, not for one second imagining that an inbuilt compass and barometer "might" assist them. Probably not even knowing that they have those capabilities.

So, R&A, "I wish you would sort it out properly".