Current Handicap System

[SammmeBee]

I know we have been here before but Freddie has made a point in another thread, which I think would make another good discussion...

I think the current handicap system does need to be looked at - it is easy for people to control there handicap at the moment, by playing in certain events and not playing in competions when the weather doesn't suit for example.

I think the current system, whilst not perfect, is pretty good if people and clubs follow the rules and guidelines from CONGU in relation in being provided a suitable amount of qualifying competitions and then playing in them....

I actually think that whatever system you use, people who want to will find a way round it and TBH if it's chucking it down and unless I am on x.4 so I can go up one then I'm not going out in the rain....

 

[Twire]

I think you've hit the nail on the head. The handicap system will work ok IF enough qualifiers through the year are played. I'm not sure this new business of having to play 3 year will make a lot of difference, I think it should be more like 10

We have monthly medal and monthly stableford's which are qualifiers through the year, we have a wednesday/sunday roll up which is a qualifier and also the big comps through the summer are qualifiers. So at our club, theres no excuse for not playing 10 qualifiers a year.

 

[Robobum]

I agree 3 qualifiers is a token gesture.

My 4somes partner hovers between a 1 & 2 h'cap, but he only plays the minimum 3 rounds per year. Two of these will be Club Champs when the SS will go up a couple.

Don't get me wrong he is stil a fine player but I think he would put at least a shot on that h'cap if he played in more qualifiers.

So the same must apply at the other end of the scale but the differences in h'cap would be significant in comparison.

 

[Herbie]

There are lots of good points on this subject but there will always be opportunity for bandits.

A player could be able to play to a 10h/c yet get a 24 for their first h/c at the club, they could practice away for a year being careful not to mess up their 24 then come the following year be playing to an 8 yet have a 24 h/c and before there is any effect on their advantage under the current system, could win every comp in the year.

There should be a more aggressive chopping system relevant to the margin scored. following this the .1 etc should be used in the increase dept not the decrease.

 

[USER1999]

The yanks have a weird system where every round played has to be entered, and then there is a really complicated bit of maths, involving slope and other that works out a handicap.

I quote:

Of your 20 most recent scores, your 10 lowest recieve a handicap differential, which is your adjusted gross score, minus the USGA course rating, multiplied by 113, and then divided by the slope rating (between 5 and 155). The differentials are then averaged, and the sum multiplied by 0.96, and then rounded to the nearest tenth.

Clear as mud.

I prefer our system. It may not be perfect, but heck, it ain't that difficult to work out.

10 qualifiers is too many. 5 sounds feasible. But they need to be proper, off the blocks. No mid week stablefords off whites.

 

[Cernunnos]

I think its about time daily play & games played at other courses were submitted for adjustment. In other words every time you book in to play your course you are expected to sign your card upon return & put it (or a copy) in the box before leaving the clubhouse or proshop before you leave. If you don't submitt then you would be asked to play a round with a commitee member or junior pro in attendance within one month.

And any round played at other clubs as a visitor would be simally submitted & signed for. You already have to sign in when visiting clubs & declaring your home club, it would take very little for all clubs to Submit cards to a centralised database with either EGU or CONGU. If you don't submit before leaving the club you are visiting then a note would be added to the central database for an outstanding card, which you would be expected to submit yourself, or at your home club upon your return.

For players without any club they should be expected to register with EGU & CONGU for registration for similar for a nominal yearly fee. That way everyone would have a handicap that was maintained & no excuses.

Yes it would be a hassle, but what isn't these days.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Cernunnos

Sorry but I disagree. Sometimes I just roll up at my club and go out on my own. Does that mean under your proposal I'd have to scramble round for a partner to mark my card. I actually enjoy my solo rounds as I get to practice various shots in a "live" environment but more importantly I love the free "me" time where I can unwind and think lifes problmes through or just smack the ball and enjoy the scenerey. I presume such solo rounds wouldn't be allowed under the big brother is counting method

 

[Robobum]

I'll back Homer here, according to your new "rules" my swift 68 the other night would become a 104 as I never took the flag out all evening

2 under to 34 over!! How cruel can you be Cernunnos??

 

[Cernunnos]

Cernunnos

Sorry but I disagree. Sometimes I just roll up at my club and go out on my own. Does that mean under your proposal I'd have to scramble round for a partner to mark my card. I actually enjoy my solo rounds as I get to practice various shots in a "live" environment but more importantly I love the free "me" time where I can unwind and think lifes problmes through or just smack the ball and enjoy the scenerey. I presume such solo rounds wouldn't be allowed under the big brother is counting method

I also like to solo golf. I would expect the pro or assistant in the shop to counter sign my card as a solo round & enter the score for me. And ask me whether the scores I have entered are acurate.

Yes not ideal, but every round played & every score counts for handicap whether up or down.

Most of us want our handicap to go down & how many times have you been out & though I wish that score of xy was taken into account when we're playing well.

Bandits will still be bandits but easily found out when every round played & every card is submitted.

 

[Cernunnos]

I'll back Homer here, according to your new "rules" my swift 68 the other night would become a 104 as I never took the flag out all evening

2 under to 34 over!! How cruel can you be Cernunnos??

My 83 at Glouster to win the works comp would have counted to cut my handicap last year & my horendous score on the Monty would have bumped it back up, whether I wanted it to or not. Which I certainly wouldn't...

So yes I can be very cruel, even to myself.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I am 100% sure your scores would be accurate if you handed them in to the assistant to sign but I can guarantee that others wouldn't be so honest. It has nothing to do with golfs integral values and everything to do with human nature and being able to pull a fast one (either getting the handicap to go up or down)

 

[Macster]

No way should other courses be used - my own course is worth at least 2/3 shots on most others around me, if not many around the county I have played.

Just not relevant, and would make it unfair on your home course.

 

[Tommo21]

I think its about time daily play & games played at other courses were submitted for adjustment. In other words every time you book in to play your course you are expected to sign your card upon return & put it (or a copy) in the box before leaving the clubhouse or proshop before you leave. If you don't submitt then you would be asked to play a round with a commitee member or junior pro in attendance within one month.

And any round played at other clubs as a visitor would be simally submitted & signed for. You already have to sign in when visiting clubs & declaring your home club, it would take very little for all clubs to Submit cards to a centralised database with either EGU or CONGU. If you don't submit before leaving the club you are visiting then a note would be added to the central database for an outstanding card, which you would be expected to submit yourself, or at your home club upon your return.

For players without any club they should be expected to register with EGU & CONGU for registration for similar for a nominal yearly fee. That way everyone would have a handicap that was maintained & no excuses.

Yes it would be a hassle, but what isn't these days.

That is funny.

 

[shanker]

The yanks have a weird system where every round played has to be entered, and then there is a really complicated bit of maths, involving slope and other that works out a handicap.

More Yank-bashing! So what? We all know how to use computers these days, don't we? The only thing I hate about ''Yank'' golfers is that they hit it so far.

 

[Cernunnos]

I am 100% sure your scores would be accurate if you handed them in to the assistant to sign but I can guarantee that others wouldn't be so honest. It has nothing to do with golfs integral values and everything to do with human nature and being able to pull a fast one (either getting the handicap to go up or down)

Very true, but in needing to hand in everyting, then those who were less than honest with the truth would soon be caught out in their attempts at trying to be clever.

Yes it certainly would be open to abuse, though maybe too much trouble for the usual suspects to abuse than the current system of three comps during a season counting to handicap.

The big plus point is most of us would not feel the necessety to enter comps to maintain our handicap.

In the end, everyone would be onto a winner with this system.

But something like this needs to be attempted as no-one seems to feel any trust towards the current sysyem it apears. And many players who don't belong to clubs & who play infrequently cannot obtain or maintain a handicap, which is a great shame.

I know many over here don't understand the american slope system. I certainly don't know exactly how it works but understand the gist, but I really don't see a need for it especially as we already have our own system of dificulty for courses in the form of Standard Scratch for a course, no matter what the parr is.

 

[SammmeBee]

The problem with every round being counted is that they are not under 'competition' conditions and we all know the added spice this adds to each shot/the round.....

I really can't see why people don't want to play in competitions - if you want to come down then it's up to you and if you want to go up then that's very easy...so I can't really see what the stigma is with them...

 

[HomerJSimpson]

For me, competitions are the main reason for joining my club. It is a chance to test your game regularly and to try and be as low as possible. There are guys who clearly protect their handicaps and the propsed "every card counts" system will just see them put more 0.1 returns in therefore getting inflated further and quicker ready to suddenly swoop in the big pot game or prestigious event.

I have more faith in the current system than I would in the US version

 

[Cernunnos]

SammmeBee, I'm not even going to say what I think of what you just said....

albiet I see where you are comming from... rofl-rofl-rofl

Okay, if anyone has the gumption to come up with something better,as another alternative to the current system then feel free.

I feel certain more people would feel more inclination to enter comps if the handicaps seemed farer by entering all daily play. I know I'd feel more inclination to enter comps if I knew everyone including myself was likely to have more accurate Handicaps.

 

[bobmac]

How about this?
If you want to compete for the main prize in the medal, you HAVE to be below a certain h/cap.....say 8.
Then watch the 12-18 h/cap pot hunters come down.
After all, why do people take up golf and within a year expect to be wining a major prize against the more experienced players.
I agree a handicap system is great for casual games but when it comes to the important stuff, lets lose the bandits

 

[HomerJSimpson]

We do have certain events that are of percentage (3/4 etc) or are for players below a certain handicap. Even when the field are off 3/4 the higher handicappers still do well (its still usually a stableford) as they still have the shots to play with.

I can't agree that people would be more inclined to enter if they knew everyones handicap had been looked at daily. I just don't beleive they would be any more representative than what we have now and more prone to protection. You are in a midweek friendly 4 ball. Nothing on it but you are close to shooting 75 off say 14. You are having a rare on day and will probably be cut a couple of shots but there is the big monthly competition on Saturday. How many would really justify being cut on a meaningless game just because you have a career day.