Current Handicap System

[USER1999]

I used to play in 50 odd comps a year, h/cap 12, I now play in about 10, h/cap 12 (well 11.3 at the moment). It makes no difference if your h/cap is honest. If you are a cheat, you will find a way to cheat.

Putting every card in is daft. What is CSS, if you are the only one to play, what ever you shoot is buffer zone.

Comps are off the blocks, pins tucked away, pressure on. This is when you are judged. You can't cut off yellows. Or whites. Someone short off the tee can blow away a short course, but stick them off the blocks can add 6 shots easy.

Also, in bounce games I want to practice things, have a laugh, be silly, aim for the 1 in a million shot. With a card, you have to play safe, so golf would become more stressful, and it is supposed to be fun. Yes, comps are fun in their way, but so is skins, so is matchplay, and so is whacking it a hard as you can.

 

[Cernunnos]

How about this?
If you want to compete for the main prize in the medal, you HAVE to be below a certain h/cap.....say 8.
Then watch the 12-18 h/cap pot hunters come down.
After all, why do people take up golf and within a year expect to be wining a major prize against the more experienced players.
I agree a handicap system is great for casual games but when it comes to the important stuff, lets lose the bandits

Well, on the face of it an interesting Idea... I think most will hate it, but even for a really high handicap player like myself, it does give a real incentive to put some serious practice to get down to what I think I'm capable of if I apply myself.

Could you make it 12 handicap & below, elegable for prizes...

 

[backwoodsman]

How about this?
If you want to compete for the main prize in the medal, you HAVE to be below a certain h/cap.....say 8.
Then watch the 12-18 h/cap pot hunters come down.
After all, why do people take up golf and within a year expect to be wining a major prize against the more experienced players.
I agree a handicap system is great for casual games but when it comes to the important stuff, lets lose the bandits

I see from where you come, but doesn't this, as an idea, rather negate the actual point of a handicapping system - which after all is supposed to make it possible for folk of different ability to compete with each other? If everyone has to be of the same (or, at least, broadly similar) ability to enter then the need for h/c has gone?

 

[rgs]

The system will never find favour with everyone and there will always be problems with handicap protectors.

Its up to each club to ensure there members are acting appropriately and playing to the highest standards .

 

[bobmac]

I agree that people need the H/cap system for playing casual stuff and bounce games, (after all, golf is a hobby)but if the prize is a weeks holiday for 2 in Singapore ..as Homer said.....who's going to hand in that net 64 , 2 days before the comp.
12 handicap is ok for the prize table i.e. a dozen balls or an umbrella, but when it comes down to the big prizes, I would like to see it as 8 or lower.

 

[Cernunnos]

How about this?
If you want to compete for the main prize in the medal, you HAVE to be below a certain h/cap.....say 8.
Then watch the 12-18 h/cap pot hunters come down.
After all, why do people take up golf and within a year expect to be wining a major prize against the more experienced players.
I agree a handicap system is great for casual games but when it comes to the important stuff, lets lose the bandits

I see from where you come, but doesn't this, as an idea, rather negate the actual point of a handicapping system - which after all is supposed to make it possible for folk of different ability to compete with each other? If everyone has to be of the same (or, at least, broadly similar) ability to enter then the need for h/c has gone?

That's the thing about haandicaps it doesn't really encorageplayers to get better, as they know they only have to do enough to win an event.

Me & a 16 handicap player often play together. & we never bother with handicaps when playing each other, if its just us. The week before Celtic manor I beat him by one shot. It could quite easily have been more. it was a first for me. Infact I could have beaten him by more than a single shot.

 

[Herbie]

I think if someone shoots under their h/c in a comp of any kind they should lose at least half of that difference from h/c. eg. If I shoot 4 under h/c in a comp I lose 2 strokes from h/c. Any increses should be no more than point two at a time, so if I shoot over h/c next comp I only get back to 7.2.

This would give more people a crack at the titles, more bandits would be quickly reduced to tears and prevented from regular wins and it would encourage better golf from all, trying to sustain h/c, It would also reduce the need for qualifiers.

Not perfect I know and not in any way prevents cheating, but would certainly improve things in my view.

 

[bobmac]

I've seen the word 'cheat' a couple of times in this thread.
What is the difference between a cheat and a bandit?
Did a cheat first use the word 'Bandit'

 

[EchtLoon]

SammmeBee, I'm not even going to say what I think of what you just said....

albiet I see where you are comming from... rofl-rofl-rofl

Okay, if anyone has the gumption to come up with something better,as another alternative to the current system then feel free.

I feel certain more people would feel more inclination to enter comps if the handicaps seemed farer by entering all daily play. I know I'd feel more inclination to enter comps if I knew everyone including myself was likely to have more accurate Handicaps.

I understand what you're saying, but your suggestion would lead to worse handicaps imo. Be that from sandbaggers who can get multpile +0.1s in between big trophy events, to reverse sanbaggers who are just shy of a balloted tournament so need a cut. There are plenty around the country under the present system, so the chance for solo rounds and bounce games to be put forward as counting rounds would exacerabte that tendency, not reduce it.

I wouldn't trust anyone's handciap under such a system.

 

[EchtLoon]

I've seen the word 'cheat' a couple of times in this thread.
What is the difference between a cheat and a bandit?
Did a cheat first use the word 'Bandit'

A Bandit is specific to a handicap cheat, whereas a cheat could be trying any one of a myriad of cheats.

 

[Cernunnos]

A cheat is simply that a cheat & is different from a bandit.

A bandit is a player who is capable of better play than he usually is able to put together. A bandit doesn't attempt to cheat, nor does he or she artificially massage his, or her scores.

Cheats, find all ways to either improve their lie or their score when it matters & harm their scores when it does not.

 

[Redwood]

My wife just thinks that handicaps are a way of patronising the amateur golfer. "Here, you're rubbish at golf, have a 20 shot head start"!!

I did try to explain to her the idea behind it, but she wasn't having any of it!!

 

[freddielong]

I agree our handicap system encourages mediocrity - what other sport is the winner not the person with the best score
but someone who did a bit better than they normally do?

 

[USER1999]

Mrs Mog doesn't get handicaps either. She plays tennis, and the better player wins. That is the whole point of being a better player.

If you liken it to boxing, it would be like allowing 20 free punches at the start of the fight to level the field abit, and give the weaker boxer a chance. Daft.

However, the h/cap concept is what sets this game apart from the others.

I can't really see a way of improving it at the moment, apart from enforcing a minimum number of cards. How you prove these to be accurate, anyones guess.

The interesting thing with the US system is the slope factor then takes course difficulty into account. In the UK, a 12 h/cap on an easy course would still only get 12 shots on a hard course. In the states, your h/cap is adjusted for the course you are going to play, based on slope, so it is always correct for the course you are playing on. Complicated, but fair. It also means if your h/cap is held on a tricky course, when you play an easier course, there is no advantage to be had.

For any who play in inter club matches, there must be clubs in your area who are viewed as bandits because they have dodgy h/caps when they play your home track. In my area, this is Batchworth Park. Not their fault, it is just their track is harder.

 

[freddielong]

It would be impossible to police I wouldn't want to remove someones handicap because they hadn't played enough - I like the US system but it would not work in the UK the courses are to diverse and weather so changeable - I do beleive that the R & A are looking into the current system,

 

[Cernunnos]

Then Perhaps Redwoods wife is right & we should simply do away with handicap all together...

If that happened I'd predict a resurgence of Matchplay over stroke play within the week. As even a 28 handicap player can occasionaly beat even a scratch player on the occasional hole even if there are no shots given.

I'd happily play every week & be prepared to loose against better players, in the hope of one one day getting the upper hand in my own right. What better incentive can we as players have, if we're prepared to pick up the batton

 

[USER1999]

Thing is, I like having a handicap. It tells you where you are, in terms of ability. Puts a stick in the ground to try to better. Without that, we would all be counting shots in our heads anyway, trying to better our average, so what is the difference?

 

[Redwood]

For any who play in inter club matches, there must be clubs in your area who are viewed as bandits because they have dodgy h/caps when they play your home track. In my area, this is Batchworth Park. Not their fault, it is just their track is harder.

It's China Fleet in Cornwall...bunch of bandits!!

 

[EchtLoon]

The interesting thing with the US system is the slope factor then takes course difficulty into account. In the UK, a 12 h/cap on an easy course would still only get 12 shots on a hard course. In the states, your h/cap is adjusted for the course you are going to play, based on slope, so it is always correct for the course you are playing on. Complicated, but fair. It also means if your h/cap is held on a tricky course, when you play an easier course, there is no advantage to be had.

I don't agree that their system is any better. There are anomolies for sure, single digit players from Carnoustie spring to mind as being 2/3 shots better than their handciap would have you believe any time I've played with them, but in general the SSS takes into account difficulty. My two courses are both par 72s, but one has a SSS of 70, the other 73.

It's not perfect, and there's no doubt most players ahve a type of course that may suit them better than others, but in general it keeps handicaps pretty straight.

 

[Parmo]

It would be impossible to police I wouldn't want to remove someones handicap because they hadn't played enough - I like the US system but it would not work in the UK the courses are to diverse and weather so changeable - I do beleive that the R & A are looking into the current system,

Isnt this season the first where you get an "I" next to your name if you have not played enough comps for local major ones? It is at my course to stop people just turning up 3-4 times a year on bandit handicaps and winning everything then going back to their home club on the real hcp, we have loads of people like this due to being a municipal, bandits the lot of them *shakes fist**