CSS

[Lord Tyrion]

Can someone explain in very simple terms the whole CSS situation.

Off the white tees my course has a par of 72.

CSS is 73.

In 5 of the 6 competitions I have played this year the CSS has been 74.

What is going on? Why would CSS not be the same as par?

If the comp CSS keeps changing to be higher would that suggest that CSS should be higher, we are just not very good or it has just been very windy most Sundays when we have played comps?

Keep it simple please.

 

[GreiginFife]

Can someone explain in very simple terms the whole CSS situation.

Off the white tees my course has a par of 72.

CSS is 73.

In 5 of the 6 competitions I have played this year the CSS has been 74.

What is going on? Why would CSS not be the same as par?

If the comp CSS keeps changing to be higher would that suggest that CSS should be higher, we are just not very good or it has just been very windy most Sundays when we have played comps?

Keep it simple please.

I think you are confusing CSS with SSS. CSS will change depending on scoring.

 

[Kellfire]

The SSS is the standard number of strokes they've decide a player of handicap 0 would take to play the course on average.

So your course is judged to be one shot harder than par.

If CSS goes up to 74 it means that on that particular day the results of those in handicap categories 1 to 3 have determined that the course was playing one shot harder that day.

Certainly not an exact science but helps to prevent handicap cuts/raises when the conditions are tougher than usual.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Okay. Excuse my stupidity at this point. Would it not then be logical for the club to say that if SSS is one shot harder than par that maybe par should change. Alter a long par 4 into a par 5? We have plenty it could happen on.

I get the movement on a competition day but it seems odd to me that the numbers do not converge more often.

 

[hovis]

Okay. Excuse my stupidity at this point. Would it not then be logical for the club to say that if SSS is one shot harder than par that maybe par should change. Alter a long par 4 into a par 5? We have plenty it could happen on.

I get the movement on a competition day but it seems odd to me that the numbers do not converge more often.

no because if that par 4 is changed into a par 5 then it might be really easy and every man and his dog gets a birdie. then the sss would drop. the idea of sss isn't to be the same as the par of the course. its telling you how difficult the course is so adjustments can be made

 

[patricks148]

as someone else said the SSS is what a scratch golfer would be expected to score and the CSS is what the rest of us numpties do, or at least the number that make buffer etc.

My club is par 71 and the SSS 73, pretty much every week the CSS is 73. never goes down if its tricky might go up one.. but not often

 

[moogie]

In simple terms
Means your new course is tough and some days even tougher

To name but 3 locally
My course (newc utd) your course (Burgham) and Bedlingtonshire mainly play css over par as they're tough courses

My old course was nearly always 1 or 2 under

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Moogie, if I decide to leave Burgham then I'll make sure to leave Bedlingtonshire off the possible list then, ha ha.

Thanks for the explanations everyone, especially those who kept it really simple .

 

[Yant]

Okay. Excuse my stupidity at this point. Would it not then be logical for the club to say that if SSS is one shot harder than par that maybe par should change. Alter a long par 4 into a par 5? We have plenty it could happen on.

I get the movement on a competition day but it seems odd to me that the numbers do not converge more often.

That wouldn't work. You wouldn't be able to change par. Par is what it is - a par 3 is a par 3. You can't change it to a par 4.

Par represents to total count of par across the course.
SSS represents the expected difficulty of the course you are playing in relation to its par.
CSS represents the difficultly experienced by the field on the day of competition play.

 

[fundy]

That wouldn't work. You wouldn't be able to change par. Par is what it is - a par 3 is a par 3. You can't change it to a par 4.

Par represents to total count of par across the course.
SSS represents the expected difficulty of the course you are playing in relation to its par.
CSS represents the difficultly experienced by the field on the day of competition play.

Course you can, move the tee boxes on a par 4 back a few yards and call it a par 5. Cut a few yards off a short par 4 and call it a par 3. Happens all the time

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Course you can, move the tee boxes on a par 4 back a few yards and call it a par 5. Cut a few yards off a short par 4 and call it a par 3. Happens all the time

Agreed. It would actually benefit our course. We have too many long par 4's off the white tees and it would be easy to do.

 

[Yant]

Good point, Fundy.

The rest of my post makes perfect sense. I think.

 

[lex!]

This is the best explanation, from a previous post, in a nutshell:

'CSS represents the difficultly experienced by the field on the day of competition play'.

It's calculated according to a formula which measures the percentage across hcap categories who buffer in the comp, compared against a table held on your comp software. You should be able to view the calculation after the comp is closed.

 

[rosecott]

Okay. Excuse my stupidity at this point. Would it not then be logical for the club to say that if SSS is one shot harder than par that maybe par should change. Alter a long par 4 into a par 5? We have plenty it could happen on.

I get the movement on a competition day but it seems odd to me that the numbers do not converge more often.

Q. Professional golf uses par as a measure of comparative playing performance. Why is the CONGU ®UHS not based on par?

A. CONGU® does not consider that par provides a suitable basis for a reliable and robust handicap system. Par is a very crude measure of the playing difficulty of a golf course. Two courses having the same par may vary in length by many hundred yards. To illustrate how great this difference can be, consider two courses constructed in similar terrain:
Course A – Four Par 3 holes each 140 yards in length and fourteen Par 4 holes each 300 yards in length. Total course length 4760 yards. Par 68
Course B - Four Par 3 holes each 220 yards in length and fourteen Par 4 holes each 400 yards in length. Total course length 6480 yards. Par 68.
Assuming similar relative playing difficulties on each course, the scoring potential of a scratch golfer on the shorter course A would be quite different from that expected on the much longer Course B. Although each has a par of 68 the respective Standard Scratch Scores would be of the order of 63 and 71 respectively. It is obvious therefore, that par does not provide a viable basis for handicapping.
The above example is based on men’s course lengths but similar principles apply to the par of ladies’ courses.

 

[rosecott]

And:

Par is used for Par/Bogey, and Stableford competitions. Par for each hole should be established by the club in relation to length and playing difficulty, within the following ranges:
Men (women)

In Yards
Par 3 Up to 250 [Up to 210]
Par 4 220 – 500 [180 – 430]
Par 5 440-720 [370-620]
Par 6 660+ [560+]

For example, if a hole is 460 [415] yards in length, it may be allocated a par of 4 or 5 depending upon its playing difficulty.
The par figure for each hole should be printed alongside each hole on the card. The total of the par figures for each hole of a course will not necessarily coincide with the Standard Scratch Score of that course. The Standard Scratch Score must not be allocated amongst individual holes, but should be printed as a total on the card. 11

 

[Foxholer]

Can someone explain in very simple terms the whole CSS situation.

Off the white tees my course has a par of 72.

CSS is 73.

In 5 of the 6 competitions I have played this year the CSS has been 74.

What is going on? Why would CSS not be the same as par?

If the comp CSS keeps changing to be higher would that suggest that CSS should be higher, we are just not very good or it has just been very windy most Sundays when we have played comps?

Keep it simple please.

Any or all of the above!

Btw. SSS/CSS has only a marginal relationship to Par! SSS rates the course to a standard consistent with all courses under Congu's authority - to make handicaps 'standard' across the same set of courses.

CSS makes an adjustment, according to standard parameters, to (hopefully) reflect the conditions on the day. That way, a comp played in one part of the county, in very wet/windy conditions, CAN actually be matched with one played elsewhere in benign ones - so any handicap adjustments (up or down) are (more likely to be) consistent across the country.

 

[Foxholer]

Good point, Fundy.

The rest of my post makes perfect sense. I think.

:thup:

 

[Simbo]

When deciding what the SSS is going to be when the relevant body assesses a course, do they actually get a scratch player to go and play it several times to see what he scores or do they just have a look at the hole and decide, yeah this is a fairly easy par 4, drive, 9 iron, good chance of a birdie and a tap in par here, so this hole will be a 4 for SSS, or am I way off the mark?
Also, why do scores above the buffer zone not get taken into consideration for CSS? surely this indicates that the course is playing more difficult on the day. Is this the reason the most course CSS very seldom changes?

 

[moogie]

When deciding what the SSS is going to be when the relevant body assesses a course, do they actually get a scratch player to go and play it several times to see what he scores or do they just have a look at the hole and decide, yeah this is a fairly easy par 4, drive, 9 iron, good chance of a birdie and a tap in par here, so this hole will be a 4 for SSS, or am I way off the mark?
Also, why do scores above the buffer zone not get taken into consideration for CSS? surely this indicates that the course is playing more difficult on the day. Is this the reason the most course CSS very seldom changes?

I'm sure ( been told ) measured by the county and assessed using various guidelines
Length, par(s) , bunkers, hazards , OB, rough etc etc

 

[chrisd]

I'm sure ( been told ) measured by the county and assessed using various guidelines
Length, par(s) , bunkers, hazards , OB, rough etc etc

We changed our SSS off the whites from 70 to 71 which was the same as par and that was afaik done by County