Course Rating

[clubchamp98]

Well, I suppose you could publish the form filled in by the club on green speeds and heights of cut and frequency of fairways, semi and rough which covers the whole course but members probably know/experience this anyway.
You could also publish the sheet per hole per tee which would show all the details for the bogey golfer landing zone, roll (dependent on elevation and slope) from there all the distances to bunkers, trees, OB, extreme rough, whether trees or camber will exacerbate or impede roll to these obstacles.
Then the same information for the scratch golfer landing zone.
Then the same information again covering the landing zone for the bogey golfer second shot (if he can’t reach the green).
It would also show the trees are rated on that hole for difficulty/density, the depth of bunkers, proportion of green surrounded by bunkers, size and severity of the green, distance from green to extreme rough, OB plus quite a few other measures that I have probably forgotten. Of course for par 5s there is more information and for 3s less.
This would be for the course we rated on Wednesday (5 tees per hole for men) 90 sheets and 3 tees for women which would be another 54 sheets. So I guess this could be done but it would be 144 A4 sheets of detailed information which I would guess would only be of interest to a tiny fraction of the membership.

That would make a nice book for the clubhouse bookcase.
Those interested could look while having a drink.

 

[D-S]

That would make a nice book for the clubhouse bookcase.
Those interested could look while having a drink.

Right on it!
Any other extra work you’d like us volunteers to do for free?

 

[clubchamp98]

Right on it!
Any other extra work you’d like us volunteers to do for free?

I never said “ you would have to do it”
That would be up to each club if they wanted one.

 

[rulefan]

Just read the last one .
Quite good thanks.

The biggest thing for me off the tee is the shape of the hole.

Obviously a long hitter but most holes on a golf course are round

 

[tobybarker]

We got rated last summer and went down to a slope of 106..... The lowest in the region i imagine. We are also acknowledged as being pretty much the toughest course in the region. Ho hum.

 

[tobybarker]

If golfers are playing in 40kph winds, or the greens especially difficulty, what impact do you think that may have on the scores?

And, if scores are worse than normal, what impact do you think that should have on PCC?

What would be worse would be for an individual person to decide what number to set it to at the end of the day. You'd need that person(s) to be at the course every day, and subjectively decide the value based on the factors you mentioned, and provably dozens more

What. Like a pro on-site setting the csss?..........novel idea

 

[Swango1980]

What. Like a pro on-site setting the csss?..........novel idea

Awful idea. Most of them can't get the rules right, let alone rate a course

Let club pros do it subjectively, every course would have a Slope of 155, as no one would want to class their course as easy

 

[DickInShorts]

Course rating is one element of a course’s difficulty- slope also has effect for mid- high handicappers.

As I understand it you could have a low CR and a ‘high’ SI - as well as the opposite.

It just depends on the difficulty for a scratch golfer as against a bogey golfer.

 

[clubchamp98]

Obviously a long hitter but most holes on a golf course are round

You need to get out more.!
I’ve seen plenty of holes that are certainly not round.

 

[Voyager EMH]

Obviously a long hitter but most holes on a golf course are round

Our holes are cylindrical.

 

[Backache]

Course rating is one element of a course’s difficulty- slope also has effect for mid- high handicappers.

As I understand it you could have a low CR and a ‘high’ SI - as well as the opposite.

It just depends on the difficulty for a scratch golfer as against a bogey golfer.

I do realise it's possible. Are there many examples of well known courses with a high CR and low slope?

 

[Voyager EMH]

I do realise it's possible. Are there many examples of well known courses with a high CR and low slope?

Depends what you mean by "well known", but there is this one in Western Australia that has CR of 0.2 over par and a SR of 110



Interestingly, my HI of 4.7 gives me a Playing Handicap of 5 using 95%, but in Australia they use 93% which means I would have PH (Daily Handicap) of 4.

 

[D-S]

Far too many things in golf rely on volunteers.

Our County has one full time employee and one part time and well over 50 unpaid volunteers in various roles (management, team managers, handicap advisor, championship committee, coaching team, course raters, referees etc. etc.). Our club has over 20 unpaid people in defined positions (Board of Directors, Greens Committee, Handicap Committee, Junior Organiser and Committee, Seniors Committee, Ladies Committee, Team Captains etc.) as well as a lot of others who lend a hand quite often. I would think this is quite typical across the UK golf landscape.

I am sure it would be very nice for all these people to be paid for the work they do.

I assume everyone would be happy to do so?

 

[rosecott]

Our County has one full time employee and one part time and well over 50 unpaid volunteers in various roles (management, team managers, handicap advisor, championship committee, coaching team, course raters, referees etc. etc.). Our club has over 20 unpaid people in defined positions (Board of Directors, Greens Committee, Handicap Committee, Junior Organiser and Committee, Seniors Committee, Ladies Committee, Team Captains etc.) as well as a lot of others who lend a hand quite often. I would think this is quite typical across the UK golf landscape.

I am sure it would be very nice for all these people to be paid for the work they do.

I assume everyone would be happy to do so?

And how many of the forum complainers would even consider coming forward to share the load?

 

[nickjdavis]

We got rated last summer and went down to a slope of 106..... The lowest in the region i imagine. We are also acknowledged as being pretty much the toughest course in the region. Ho hum.

Whats the course rating...that will give you an idea of the difficulty, not the slope.

 

[rulefan]

Whats the course rating...that will give you an idea of the difficulty, not the slope.

I think there are many that don't understand the difference.

 

[Voyager EMH]

I found Painswick to be very tough when I played it 2 years ago.
Off the yellow tees CR is 3.1 under par and SR is 105.

I'm HI 4.7 and I have to go round in just 1-over par to play to my handicap. That gives me SD = 4.4
At my home club off the whites, 6-over par gets me a SD of 4.5

Painswick seems much tougher to me.
But the CR and SR should make all courses the same degree of tough/easy to play to one's handicap.
I suppose it is because we have different styles of play and we will find some courses more suited to our particular style.

 

[Swango1980]

I do realise it's possible. Are there many examples of well known courses with a high CR and low slope?

I'm sure there must be quite a few. I've noticed quite a few links courses with high course ratings, but quite low slopes.

I think lack of trees and a more open course means the bogey rating is relatively lower. Whereas you could play a much tighter tree lines course with a lower Course Rating, as scratch golfers find it easier to get round. But bogey golfers find it relatively tougher as it is tight

Not sure if this is typical of what others have experienced?

 

[D-S]

I found Painswick to be very tough when I played it 2 years ago.
Off the yellow tees CR is 3.1 under par and SR is 105.

I'm HI 4.7 and I have to go round in just 1-over par to play to my handicap. That gives me SD = 4.4
At my home club off the whites, 6-over par gets me a SD of 4.5

Painswick seems much tougher to me.
But the CR and SR should make all courses the same degree of tough/easy to play to one's handicap.
I suppose it is because we have different styles of play and we will find some courses more suited to our particular style.

I guess this is where length a major factor, Painswick is very enjoyable, though a tough walk, but it extremely short in comparison with most courses even though it’s par 67.
4572 yards off the tees you mention. This means that the bogey golfer can almost certainly get to all of the greens in regulation which negates a lot of the scratch players advantage. The longest par 3 is 144, longest par 4 is 366 and longest par 5 448., The fact that it has no bunkers also reduces its difficulty.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

The relationship between CR and Par can be misleading.
Par is arbitrarily assigned by the club. A par 4 can range from 240 to 490 yards and a par 5 from 450 to 710. The club determines the total par based on the assignment of hole pars.
CR expects the 'standard' scratch player to drive 250 and a fairway shot of 200, so depending on other aspects (ie obstructions, doglegs etc) the number of strokes taken before holing the putt can be variable. The course determines the rating based on all attributes.

But the number of strokes taken from tee to hole must be the dominant factor.

The relationship between CR and length is almost invariable, I'm not sure how I can make this simpler. Length does not determine how hard a course is, but it's an overwhelmingly dominant factor in course ratings, and it's simply not accurate