Swango1980
Well-known member
I thought gross score gave only a partly a measure how hard a course is, but primarily how good the golfer is
Course Rating
- Thread starter rulefan
- Start date
doublebogey7
Head Pro
ExactlyI thought gross score gave only a partly a measure how hard a course is, but primarily how good the golfer is
wjemather
Well-known member
Gross scores are only a measure if you have knowledge of the players and an existing benchmark for their ability.
For example, a difficult course played predominantly by good players will have lower gross scores than an easy course predominantly played by beginners. Without any knowledge of the players, the gross scores would suggest the former is easier.
D-S
Well-known member
Do you know if anyone uses the 'Course Rating Variance' report? If so, for what purpose and what does it tell us?
wjemather
Well-known member
I haven't heard anyone mention doing anything with it.
I've not seen any guidance/instructions but have looked at the reports. I suppose they could be used to identify possible issues with ratings or course setups, but there are much better ways to analyse the data if that is the purpose.
Ye Olde Boomer
Well-known member
You guys are really into this stuff, aren't you?
I'm just enjoying the fresh air socializing with my friends.
Our course has course and slope ratings, I presume,
but I can't tell you what they are off the top of my head.
I'm just enjoying the fresh air socializing with my friends.
Our course has course and slope ratings, I presume,
but I can't tell you what they are off the top of my head.
AussieKB
Well-known member
Do you believe your course/slope rating is correct ?
I have just gone back through my handicap and found the last time I had 36 points at one of my two courses I am a member of was last October, next best was 34 points in December.
I have stated before that this course is at least a shot harder then the other, but the rating is the other way round.
This Sunday I am playing away at another course where the rating is wrong IMO, will drop 2 shots off my 4 handicap, so will be on a 2, when we play a Vet's comp there some people lose as much as 5 shots from their home course.
It was re-rated recently and slope went up to 107, should be at least 113 IMO.
How does your course stack up ?
I have just gone back through my handicap and found the last time I had 36 points at one of my two courses I am a member of was last October, next best was 34 points in December.
I have stated before that this course is at least a shot harder then the other, but the rating is the other way round.
This Sunday I am playing away at another course where the rating is wrong IMO, will drop 2 shots off my 4 handicap, so will be on a 2, when we play a Vet's comp there some people lose as much as 5 shots from their home course.
It was re-rated recently and slope went up to 107, should be at least 113 IMO.
How does your course stack up ?
KenL
Tour Rookie
My course seems about right to me. Par 71, CR 72.3 of back tees. 6600 yards.
Another course near me see plays way harder than it’s CR. It is not hugely long but the greens are very slopey and massively tricky.
It is par 71 but CR 69. No way is it 3 shots easier than my home course.
Another course near me see plays way harder than it’s CR. It is not hugely long but the greens are very slopey and massively tricky.
It is par 71 but CR 69. No way is it 3 shots easier than my home course.
wjemather
Well-known member
All players have their own perceptions of how easy/difficult a course is, largely based on their own strengths and weaknesses. Such subjective judgements are of little value in assessing the accuracy of ratings.
Also, Slope isn't a measure of difficulty - it's function is to maintain an appropriate relative difference in handicap between lower and higher handicappers.
On a course that is easier for higher handicappers, the difference will be lesser, and on a course easier for lower handicappers the difference will be greater, than on a course that is equally difficult for both (slope 113).
Also, Slope isn't a measure of difficulty - it's function is to maintain an appropriate relative difference in handicap between lower and higher handicappers.
On a course that is easier for higher handicappers, the difference will be lesser, and on a course easier for lower handicappers the difference will be greater, than on a course that is equally difficult for both (slope 113).
rulefan
Tour Winner
Course Rating and Bogey Rating (ie Slope) are based on a 'Model' player. This 'model' player hits the ball specific distances and is expected to get out of difficulties with relative ease or struggle. If you don't match these characteristics, you may find a specific course more or less difficult than you expect by simply looking at the CR and Slope. Problem areas may not be where you typically hit the ball or may be where you do hit the ball. A fairway bunker at 290 yards may not be rated for a model scratch player but if you hit your drives 300+ it could have an effect on your score.
D
Deleted member 21784
Guest
Diving into this, course rating I agree with ...it's the slope that's a made up figure that is flawed
Take 2 courses near me
Top meadow has a few ditches across fairways (easy to lay up or fly over) but because of this they are given a higher slope rating of 137 (par 72 CR 70.9) that's off their white (longest tees) 6171 yards
Ingrebourne (My course) doesn't have ditches. However has a ton of gorse bushes , which if you find (just off line) it's ball lost . However gorse doesn't appear in the slope ratings numbers so doesn't get taken into account .. off our whites (middle tees not even longest) par 72 CR 71.8 (so means it's harder no?) the slope is 111 ..... (Tee length 6633 so even longer)
I get less shots at my place and also I have to break 90 off whites to get a score diff of 18 or below where as go to top meadow you can hit 93 to get a score diff of 18...
Now that's flawed no? The harder CR means the course is harder so why would you need to shoot LOWER to get the same score diff?
rulefan
Tour Winner
A couple of observations.
1) 'Laying up' may well result in an extra stroke. This is included under 'Forced lay up' and 'Lay up by choice'. Any additional distance towards the hole is counted in the next stroke
2) Gorse bushes are mentioned in the manual and are treated as 'Extreme Rough'. ie with the likelihood that the ball will be lost
Incidentally how do you know what effect they had on the Slope?
D-S
Well-known member
Dependent on where the gorse is it will be taken into consideration in both the CR and Slope.
D
Deleted member 21784
Guest
The course rater was asked when they came to rerate the course
D
Deleted member 21784
Guest
Down the side of almost every fairway , adding more now to make the 630 yard par 5 have a gorse lined window to hit for the second shot
D-S
Well-known member
Then the gorse will have been taken into account.
D
Deleted member 21784
Guest
The course rater told us it wasn't, every single golfer who visits always walks off saying "lot tougher than the slope suggests"
wjemather
Well-known member
That's just golfers (still) not understanding what Slope is.
rulefan
Tour Winner
D-S
Well-known member
In the landing zones of both the model scratch and bogey golfers the width of the fairway is measured, as is the distance to various obstacles and hazards. These are graded as to their difficulty e.g OB, dense trees, a few immaterial trees, bunkers (the depth of which is graded), light rough, severe rough, penalty areas, etc. etc.
Gorse will have been designated as extreme rough (similar to dense undergrowth) and the distance of it from the fairway will have formed a part of the rating numbers.
Gorse will have been designated as extreme rough (similar to dense undergrowth) and the distance of it from the fairway will have formed a part of the rating numbers.
