Club Comps HCap divisions

incatrekker

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I was wondering what other clubs use as their handicap divisions. Ours are Div1 up to 13: Div2 14-19: Div3 20 and up. We usually have the following entries; 50 in Div1: 50 in Div2: 20 in Div3. Prize money equal in all divisions. How does your club do it?
Also, how is your club dividing up divisions when WHS arrives?
 

jim8flog

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We divide ours so that their is roughly an equal number in each division and the number of divisions is decide by the number of players.
The club and the seniors operate different division
Club 3 divs.
Div 1 up to 10
Div 2 11- 16
Div 3 17 -54
Prize money is decide by the number who actually play in each div. on the day
Club 2 Divs.
Div 1 up to 11
Div 2 12-54

When the WHS comes in we will make a decision based upon how scores are reported by the software e.g. course or playing and how the WHS affects handicaps overall (I see marginal increases in players course/playing handicaps at our course).
 

Swango1980

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No divisions in club champs, simply a gross prize and a nett prize. Only comps with divisions are monthly medals, nett prize for Div 1, nett prize for Div 2 and an overall gross prize. The divisions are split each competition so that there is a 50/50 split of participants in each field.
 

incatrekker

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We divide ours so that their is roughly an equal number in each division and the number of divisions is decide by the number of players.
The club and the seniors operate different division
Club 3 divs.
Div 1 up to 10
Div 2 11- 16
Div 3 17 -54
Prize money is decide by the number who actually play in each div. on the day
Club 2 Divs.
Div 1 up to 11
Div 2 12-54

When the WHS comes in we will make a decision based upon how scores are reported by the software e.g. course or playing and how the WHS affects handicaps overall (I see marginal increases in players course/playing handicaps at our course).
If I understand you correctly it seems the division handicap limit is decided after the comp is completed, but based on those you stated?
 

jim8flog

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If I understand you correctly it seems the division handicap limit is decided after the comp is completed, but based on those you stated?

The only decision that is made after the comp is whether there is one, two or 3 divisions. For Saturday comps this is always 3 divisions and for Seniors comps this is always 3 divisions simply because there will always be enough players to have 3.

Some of our weekday comps might only 3 players in (9 hole comps round our 9 hole course) so there will only be one division but most normally l have a enough for 2, occasionally weekday comps will have enough for 3 divisions. Since courses reopened post lockdown we have seen quite an increase an in the numbers playing in comps weekday and have been using 3 on popular days such as Thursday and Friday.
 

Swango1980

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We don't split any of our competition prizes into divisions and why would we?
Theoretically, if you had a very large field with, say 20 scratch golfers and 20 40+ handicappers (some of who may have just started the game). Probability wise, will the winner be a scratch golfer or a 40+ handicapper? I'd imagine there is a better chance of a 45+ stableford point round from the higher handicapper. So, as a scratch golfer, you may feel that regardless of how well you play, at least 1 of the high handicappers will have a great round and shoot a score the scratch golfer has no chance to achieve.
 

incatrekker

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Theoretically, if you had a very large field with, say 20 scratch golfers and 20 40+ handicappers (some of who may have just started the game). Probability wise, will the winner be a scratch golfer or a 40+ handicapper? I'd imagine there is a better chance of a 45+ stableford point round from the higher handicapper. So, as a scratch golfer, you may feel that regardless of how well you play, at least 1 of the high handicappers will have a great round and shoot a score the scratch golfer has no chance to achieve.
Analysis of our comps shows that divisional winners are almost always at the highest allowable hcap in that division, which bears out your probability scenario.
Is it necessary for players to know which division they’re playing in before they start a comp?
 

doublebogey7

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Theoretically, if you had a very large field with, say 20 scratch golfers and 20 40+ handicappers (some of who may have just started the game). Probability wise, will the winner be a scratch golfer or a 40+ handicapper? I'd imagine there is a better chance of a 45+ Stableford point round from the higher handicapper. So, as a scratch golfer, you may feel that regardless of how well you play, at least 1 of the high handicappers will have a great round and shoot a score the scratch golfer has no chance to achieve.
I'd suggest the opposite is true though, certainly if the results from the two clubs where I've been on the handicap committee are anything to go by. CONGU analysis of scores taken from there vast database would also suggest the same.
 

Swango1980

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I'd suggest the opposite is true though, certainly if the results from the two clubs where I've been on the handicap committee are anything to go by. CONGU analysis of scores taken from there vast database would also suggest the same.
A 40 handicapper, who is new to golf, is likely to improve and ultimately see a significant drop over time. Therefore, it is not unusual that at least one 40 handicapper out of many could shoot a high score. For example, imagine a field that includes 50 golfers who play off 40. It would certainly not surprise me to see the best score of those 50 golfers to be high, say 48 points as an example. Imagine the same field including 50 golfers who play off scratch. Is is equally likely that the best score for the scratch golfers would be 12 under gross to get 48 points?

Note, the smaller the field, the more chance a lower handicapper will win. Because their consistency will likely see them shoot a decent score, better than many inconsistent scores from high handicappers (generally low), so long as a higher handicapper doesn't have a blinder.
 

doublebogey7

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A 40 handicapper, who is new to golf, is likely to improve and ultimately see a significant drop over time. Therefore, it is not unusual that at least one 40 handicapper out of many could shoot a high score. For example, imagine a field that includes 50 golfers who play off 40. It would certainly not surprise me to see the best score of those 50 golfers to be high, say 48 points as an example. Imagine the same field including 50 golfers who play off scratch. Is is equally likely that the best score for the scratch golfers would be 12 under gross to get 48 points?

Note, the smaller the field, the more chance a lower handicapper will win. Because their consistency will likely see them shoot a decent score, better than many inconsistent scores from high handicappers (generally low), so long as a higher handicapper doesn't have a blinder.
You are right in that a high handicapper is more likely to come in with an unusually low score than a scratch golfer, but in my experience, they are still relatively rare occurrences restricted to golfers new to the game. Certainly at my club if we introduced divisions we would be redistributing the prize fund from low to high handicappers, which could, of course, be seen as a good thing.
 

rulefan

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We have 3 divisions but they are not proportional to the number of players in the handicap groups in the field (or the club). I gather they were arbitrarily set eons ago.
The objection I have is that the total sweep is split equally 3 ways. But the pro who runs it says as it is harder to win div 1 because they are all good players, the winner deserves proportionally more!!!
 

jim8flog

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One other thing we have as a prize as part of normal competitions is a best gross prize.

This gives something for the very low handicap players to play for.
 

ScienceBoy

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We don't split any of our competition prizes into divisions and why would we?

Depends on the number playing and how the membership feel about it.

Some clubs do it to help people feel competitive, some clubs don’t do it because the membership isn’t interested.

There are no hard and fast rules and the best player on the day still wins.
 

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Theoretically, if you had a very large field with, say 20 scratch golfers and 20 40+ handicappers (some of who may have just started the game). Probability wise, will the winner be a scratch golfer or a 40+ handicapper? I'd imagine there is a better chance of a 45+ stableford point round from the higher handicapper. So, as a scratch golfer, you may feel that regardless of how well you play, at least 1 of the high handicappers will have a great round and shoot a score the scratch golfer has no chance to achieve.

No, lower handicap golfers have a higher chance of winning, their consistency, and so number of times they have a score in the shake out, outweighs the number of times a high handicap will have a useful score, even if that score is likely to be a higher one than the lower golfers can reach.
 

Swango1980

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No, lower handicap golfers have a higher chance of winning, their consistency, and so number of times they have a score in the shake out, outweighs the number of times a high handicap will have a useful score, even if that score is likely to be a higher one than the lower golfers can reach.
You missed my point. I fully agree that a lower golfer will beat a higher handicapper more often than not, due to their consistency. However, in a very large field, the odds significantly increase that at least 1 high handicapper will get a great score. And, it only takes 1 to get a great score that no lower handicapper is likely to achieve. It doesn't matter if a scratch golfer has a great day and shoots 42 points, and beats 45 out of 50 guys who have a 40+ handicap. Not when 5 of the 40+ handicappers shoot around 43-50 points.
 

rulefan

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Some years ago a CONGU study showed

"When the distribution of winners by handicap category is related to their representation in the field, all handicap categories win in reasonable proportion to their entry i.e. Category 1 and Category 3 players typically comprise 8% and 40% of a club competition and in a ‘single class’ competition win 10% and 38% of the time."
 

doublebogey7

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You missed my point. I fully agree that a lower golfer will beat a higher handicapper more often than not, due to their consistency. However, in a very large field, the odds significantly increase that at least 1 high handicapper will get a great score. And, it only takes 1 to get a great score that no lower handicapper is likely to achieve. It doesn't matter if a scratch golfer has a great day and shoots 42 points, and beats 45 out of 50 guys who have a 40+ handicap. Not when 5 of the 40+ handicappers shoot around 43-50 points.
Which if you are paying out for just one prize is a good argument, but not if you are paying multiple prizes, we pay top 10% for all our competitions, so anything up to 16 prizes.
 
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