Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Imurg]

What nobody expected was Leave winning. The vote was supposed to be sop to those who wanted to leave and we were to be told that we had had our opportunity and blown it. No one planned for it so rather than implementing the will of the people, we’ll look for every way to avoid carrying it out.

Is the correct answer.
No "if" or "buts"- had the politicians got behind it and done their jobs with even a modicum of gumption we'd be walking away next week with a reasonable deal for both sides. Instead, the whole shower of cow poo has got lost on the way to the brewery and can't even find the brothel.
And that's my last word on the subject as it's a waste of time going round in ever decreasing circles

 

[Foxholer]

Can't wait

Utter Twaddle!

 

[SocketRocket]

Well you are blaming people for something that is not their fault

They didn’t vote for this , they didn’t want Brexit and to have this current mess so why are they to blame ?

People having a March and a petition is carrying out their democratic right and at the end of the day that won’t change a decision and it’s not the March or petition that has us where we are right now

I thought this was a good picture

View attachment 26897

So what if people haven’t “accepted” the result - that’s their right being in a democracy or should they be told to just shut up ? People don’t accept votes - and there is nothing wrong with that or asking for another vote - not one single vote is ever the final one

What a stupid chart. There are around 64 million people represented on it, that would indicate every person in the country including children and babes in arms were entitled to a vote. The turn out in the referendum was the highest number to ever vote so looking at dodgy data like this is plain stupid. Try harder no gerrymandering will change the FACTS.

 

[SocketRocket]

Utter Twaddle!

🚮

 

[Big Jim]

so TM sends a letter to all MP saying she will only resubmit her "deal" if there is support, the woman is delusional, what were the last attempts to get it thorough... record failures, that what.

She was one of the worst Home Sec its little surprise she is one of the worst PMs

 

[Deleted member 16999]

So when the Remainers start petitions and go on marches they are exercising their Democratic right, but when Leavers are not happy that TM’s deal is a bad deal and they complain or as an MP refuse to back it, they are spineless and self serving and un-democratic.

 

[Tashyboy]

No.
The information is out there, the plan isn’t nor has preparatory work been done.
Get that sorted and let’s review. Too many people’s futures are at stake... for the whim of 3million majority and 15million who abstained or missed an opportunity to say it. The 17.4million is a miscellaneous figure, you need to deduct those who voted the other way... so it’s too small to force this change through and that is being enacted out in the commons, and we will see in the house of lords.

Not the answer you want hear, I know.

Harpo, everyone had an opportunity to vote. If 15 million could not be arsed to vote, why are we even talking about them. Let's not look at those 15 million as innocents that don't or didn't have a voice. Let's look at those 15 million as thick as pigs hit.
I have said this before and I will say it again, throughout this Brexit fiasco, I have never ever sat at the top of the garden with my head in my hands thinking. My house could be taken away from me. I did when they shut my pits, and another 250. I did when 250,000 miners jobs went. And another 250,000 other jobs that supported and relied on mining. When I heard the country was going through a double dip depression, going through years of austerity. You know what Mining was in its own permanent depression from 1984-2015 and who gave a toss. No one. But you know what, you man up, you grit your teeth and you learn to adjust to the demands of a changing business. You multi skill, you travel hundreds of miles a week to and from work. You do what you have to do to put food on your families tables. It what I did, my kids have done, it's what my parents did travelling from Lancashire to Notts. It's what my grandparents did. You adjust.
What you don't do is listen to lying back stabbing politicians from all partys who have there own agendas. Agendas that don't involve the very fabric of this United Kingdom. That fabric being Democracy.

 

[Foxholer]

...
Any animosity, other than that aimed at the pathetic group currently sitting in Westminster, is down to the side that lost the vote not getting behind the decision and working towards obtaining the best possible exit strategy.
If that had happened, both politicians and the general public, we might not be in the mess we are in....

Nah! Dyed-in-the-wool Remainers would certainly have continued to moan, but that happens with any close result. Its Westminster that have caused the current (and greatest) mess!

May probably could have handled things/communicated better, but if Westminster agreed to accept the referendum result, then agreed to enact A50, then I believe it must not now use its 'power' to frustrate the entire process by, effectively, changing its mind and negating those actions!

 

[Foxholer]

🚮

You completely missed my point - an attempt to 'do irony textually'!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Nah! Dyed-in-the-wool Remainers would certainly have continued to moan, but that happens with any close result. Its Westminster that have caused the current (and greatest) mess!

May probably could have handled things/communicated better, but if Westminster agreed to accept the referendum result, then agreed to enact A50, then I believe it must not now use its 'power' to frustrate the entire process by, effectively, changing its mind and negating those actions!

They also shouldn’t be rushed into or blackmailed into just any deal.
Now we are in this mess we need to stand back and do it properly, and that to me is to either a no deal and we negotiate from fresh or Parliament agrees to talk to each other and keeps talking until we get a deal the majority support.

 

[Foxholer]

They also shouldn’t be rushed into or blackmailed into just any deal.
Now we are in this mess we need to stand back and do it properly, and that to me is to either a no deal and we negotiate from fresh or Parliament agrees to talk to each other and keeps talking until we get a deal the majority support.

As long as 'returning to Remain' of another Leave/Remain referendum is off the table, I'd be fine with that!

 

[PJ87]

What a stupid chart. There are around 64 million people represented on it, that would indicate every person in the country including children and babes in arms were entitled to a vote. The turn out in the referendum was the highest number to ever vote so looking at dodgy data like this is plain stupid. Try harder no gerrymandering will change the FACTS.

Are you deliberately being awkward or are you blinded? It’s clearly including everyone as “those not on the electoral roll” would include children

 

[Dando]

The difference is too small .. this is why there is an issue.

The issue is that those who voted remain can’t accept the result

 

[Dando]

Are you deliberately being awkward or are you blinded? It’s clearly including everyone as “those not on the electoral roll” would include children

there’s no reason for them to be on there if they aren’t elligible to vote and you could say the same for those that couldn’t be bothered to vote

 

[Hacker Khan]

The issue is that those who voted remain can’t accept the result

No it is not. Saying every remainer can't accept the result is like saying every leaver is a think gammon racist. I am sure there are some on both sides, but it is a lot more nuanced than that. There are many who voted remain who would like us to have a withdrawal agreement and leave with the least possible damage. I would argue there are many more who voted remain who are against a no deal then there are who want a second referendum.

And if the PM is just going to say it's her deal with all the reds lines it entails which does not have the support of parliament or no deal then, in a way that will strengthen the second referendum campaign. And leavers who want a no deal who just say remainers can't accept the result will encourage that as well.

 

[bobmac]

If 16million voted to remain in the EU in 2016 and only 4million have signed the petition to cancel brexit, does that mean the other 12 million have changed their mind and now want to leave?

 

[Hacker Khan]

If 16million voted to remain in the EU in 2016 and only 4million have signed the petition to cancel brexit, does that mean the other 12 million have changed their mind and now want to leave?

No, as mentioned above there are many remainers who see a good deal as the fairest outcome.

 

[drdel]

With all these numbers floating about it might be worth adding in a bit more statistical 'noise' London; population 8+mill voted Remain and the big March just needs some of them. to fall out of bed ! The Leave areas would need to spend much more time and money to attend a 'march'. Its of little or no significance in the scheme of things except media hype.

 

[Hacker Khan]

With all these numbers floating about it might be worth adding in a bit more statistical 'noise' London; population 8+mill voted Remain and the big March just needs some of them. to fall out of bed ! The Leave areas would need to spend much more time and money to attend a 'march'. Its of little or no significance in the scheme of things except media hype.

And all the referendum needed was for people with absolutely no knowledge of the subject or it's implications to put their cross on a piece of paper and make one of the most important decisions this nation has ever made in the last few decades. You can desperately try and reduce any event's significance if you want to use clever wordplay.

And for the third time, not all remainers want a second referendum!! Is that so difficult a concept to grasp?

 

[SocketRocket]

Are you deliberately being awkward or are you blinded? It’s clearly including everyone as “those not on the electoral roll” would include children

I think your comments can be turned on yourself. What's the point of making a pie chart to show the voting breakdown if it includes people not entitled to. Vote, it's deliberately misleading.