Bandits/Cheats/Good Days and Bad

[DeanoMK]

One for you all - the guy that runs a work golf society I'm in plays off of 9, but in reality he's probably a 12-14 handicap. He always comes in with 30+ points but he never puts himself in the groups with people that are either going to keep an eye on his scoring or are capable to, he's always out with the guys that are either new to the game, the society or are high handicaps.

My dad came along once and was in the group with said guy - who once again came in with over 30 points (I think it was 37 that day) but we all saw blob the first. My dad said that this guy had blobbed at least 2 other holes and was all over the place.

This is our 3rd year of running the comp and the 4 best scores from 8 or so comps are what are used to determine the standings, and this guy has won 2 years in a row and is already top of this years standings - we all kind of make a joke about it now but it's really starting to grate me now - how would you handle the situation?

 

[Sports_Fanatic]

I'd encourgae him to get a correct handicap as that may mean he's less likely to cheat (if that is what he's doing).

I'd also begin with saying that it may be better to mix up the beginners/high handicappers etc as it's not fair on him to play with them all the time and you learn from playing with different players. That may mean you can check the position.

Final one would be to try and review his cards to sit if for example he did mark the first as a blob or not in the last round.

I probably wouldn't challenge him specifically, unless your dad was certain the score wasn't correct (i.e. can specifically state what he should have put down on a hole), until you've had a chance to check.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

One for you all - the guy that runs a work golf society I'm in plays off of 9, but in reality he's probably a 12-14 handicap. He always comes in with 30+ points but he never puts himself in the groups with people that are either going to keep an eye on his scoring or are capable to, he's always out with the guys that are either new to the game, the society or are high handicaps.

My dad came along once and was in the group with said guy - who once again came in with over 30 points (I think it was 37 that day) but we all saw blob the first. My dad said that this guy had blobbed at least 2 other holes and was all over the place.

This is our 3rd year of running the comp and the 4 best scores from 8 or so comps are what are used to determine the standings, and this guy has won 2 years in a row and is already top of this years standings - we all kind of make a joke about it now but it's really starting to grate me now - how would you handle the situation?

No easy way other than to have a frank and open conversation about what has been seen and reported. Say you'll put him in a different group and suggest its as much for his benefit to show there is nothing going on rather than to catch him out. If he kicks off, make it clear its cheating pure and simple and he'll either not bother in future, tell him to accept the compromise and that if it's seen and reported again he's gone

 

[Hobbit]

One for you all - the guy that runs a work golf society I'm in plays off of 9, but in reality he's probably a 12-14 handicap. He always comes in with 30+ points but he never puts himself in the groups with people that are either going to keep an eye on his scoring or are capable to, he's always out with the guys that are either new to the game, the society or are high handicaps.

My dad came along once and was in the group with said guy - who once again came in with over 30 points (I think it was 37 that day) but we all saw blob the first. My dad said that this guy had blobbed at least 2 other holes and was all over the place.

This is our 3rd year of running the comp and the 4 best scores from 8 or so comps are what are used to determine the standings, and this guy has won 2 years in a row and is already top of this years standings - we all kind of make a joke about it now but it's really starting to grate me now - how would you handle the situation?

Either find some way of proving your suspicions and deal with your findings or move on to another society. Its that simple.

 

[Fish]

Played an 11 handicapper yesterday after progressing through 3 rounds of a board knockout matchplay competition and got thumped 7&6!

We shook hands on the 12th and he was level gross, he then took his foot off the pedal slightly and finished +3 over 18 holes!

I knew he had a purple round a couple of weeks prior against a friend of mine who plays off 2 and is very consistent, he had to give him 9 shots and he got thumped 6&5 and he was -1 gross through 18 holes!

The only 2 holes I won were when he didn't hit those 2 greens in regulation and I stole them with pars, others I had to be aggressive with my putts as I was mainly putting for halves and simply delaying the inevitable!

His recent (not playing often enough though) medal rounds are shocking though, high 80's & 90's?

I've been playing well lately, especially in matchplay, not been beaten for 18 months in the A-team (POTY) and unbeaten in our B-team this season, but I got served up yesterday.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

One for you all - the guy that runs a work golf society I'm in plays off of 9, but in reality he's probably a 12-14 handicap. He always comes in with 30+ points but he never puts himself in the groups with people that are either going to keep an eye on his scoring or are capable to, he's always out with the guys that are either new to the game, the society or are high handicaps.

My dad came along once and was in the group with said guy - who once again came in with over 30 points (I think it was 37 that day) but we all saw blob the first. My dad said that this guy had blobbed at least 2 other holes and was all over the place.

This is our 3rd year of running the comp and the 4 best scores from 8 or so comps are what are used to determine the standings, and this guy has won 2 years in a row and is already top of this years standings - we all kind of make a joke about it now but it's really starting to grate me now - how would you handle the situation?

Presumbly someone else marks his card? Does it not get spotted then? I always check the scores after 9 holes so any discrepancies are picked up then and people can still remember what happened on the 1st or 2nd holes etc. Horribly uncomfortable situation.

 

[Slab]

No easy way other than to have a frank and open conversation about what has been seen and reported. Say you'll put him in a different group and suggest its as much for his benefit to show there is nothing going on rather than to catch him out. If he kicks off, make it clear its cheating pure and simple and he'll either not bother in future, tell him to accept the compromise and that if it's seen and reported again he's gone

Wouldn’t recommend this approach ^^^

Deano has no evidence whatsoever (Deano’s dad, in the same group, didn’t say how many points the guy scored and he was in a position to count hole by hole)

Sure it has to be managed but it’s in no way time for face to face accusations until someone goes out in the same group (under a different guise than ‘we think you’re at it’ ) and actually counts the points scored & the guy running the society is still adamant he scored more

 

[Slab]

Presumbly someone else marks his card? Does it not get spotted then? I always check the scores after 9 holes so any discrepancies are picked up then and people can still remember what happened on the 1st or 2nd holes etc. Horribly uncomfortable situation.

Yeah I was scoring for a couple of new’ish players last weekend and had to tactfully raise their counting accuracy a couple of times and best to do it before teeing off at the next hole

I always approach it from the assumption that it’s a genuine error/miscount, until overwhelming evidence or actions say otherwise

 

[Deleted member 15344]

One for you all - the guy that runs a work golf society I'm in plays off of 9, but in reality he's probably a 12-14 handicap. He always comes in with 30+ points but he never puts himself in the groups with people that are either going to keep an eye on his scoring or are capable to, he's always out with the guys that are either new to the game, the society or are high handicaps.

My dad came along once and was in the group with said guy - who once again came in with over 30 points (I think it was 37 that day) but we all saw blob the first. My dad said that this guy had blobbed at least 2 other holes and was all over the place.

This is our 3rd year of running the comp and the 4 best scores from 8 or so comps are what are used to determine the standings, and this guy has won 2 years in a row and is already top of this years standings - we all kind of make a joke about it now but it's really starting to grate me now - how would you handle the situation?

Surely he isn’t doing his own card ? So the simple thing is the guy who is marking his card needs to be sharp and ensure he is getting the score right

But before any approach etc you need to make sure 100% that something is going on - far too many have cried bandit only to find out the guy is genuine

Markers are the ones who need to be vigilant when doing anyone’s scorecard

 

[Kellfire]

Played an 11 handicapper yesterday after progressing through 3 rounds of a board knockout matchplay competition and got thumped 7&6!

We shook hands on the 12th and he was level gross, he then took his foot off the pedal slightly and finished +3 over 18 holes!

I knew he had a purple round a couple of weeks prior against a friend of mine who plays off 2 and is very consistent, he had to give him 9 shots and he got thumped 6&5 and he was -1 gross through 18 holes!

The only 2 holes I won were when he didn't hit those 2 greens in regulation and I stole them with pars, others I had to be aggressive with my putts as I was mainly putting for halves and simply delaying the inevitable!

His recent (not playing often enough though) medal rounds are shocking though, high 80's & 90's?

I've been playing well lately, especially in matchplay, not been beaten for 18 months in the A-team (POTY) and unbeaten in our B-team this season, but I got served up yesterday.

If you were POTY for the A team why have you dropped to the B team? Are your club more likely to win the B team league?

 

[DeanoMK]

Surely he isn’t doing his own card ? So the simple thing is the guy who is marking his card needs to be sharp and ensure he is getting the score right

But before any approach etc you need to make sure 100% that something is going on - far too many have cried bandit only to find out the guy is genuine

Markers are the ones who need to be vigilant when doing anyone’s scorecard

He isn't marking his own card but I'm fairly sure it's a case of whoever is marking it asks what he got and marks it rather than them actually counting the shots.

Unfortunately I'm fairly sure he's not genuine - the couple of times someone has played with him that can keep an eye on his score, he has a 'bad day' and comes in with low to mid 20s. We have a winter society that he's in, that's run by someone else and I've never seen him post a good score, always cites it's because he can't play in the winter as it's too soft.

 

[Flubster]

Thesociety I played in was great, never seemed to be won by the same players but they calculated their own handicaps based on previous society performance, if you won by a few clear points from the average you would get a cut and have to play out of your skin for the next few games to stand a chance. It was all about fun not cheating. As a lot of the members didn't play club golf and some would be very inconsistent it seemed a better way then using proper calculations for the handicaps. The only real issue was a few newbies coming in and winning the first time because of the "28" handicap they had when 3 months later they were down to 15-18. if hes winning all the time and hitting mid 30's he needs his society handicap cut and review how you score in the society going forward. Good one for the AGM.

 

[rksquire]

One for you all - the guy that runs a work golf society I'm in plays off of 9, but in reality he's probably a 12-14 handicap. He always comes in with 30+ points but he never puts himself in the groups with people that are either going to keep an eye on his scoring or are capable to, he's always out with the guys that are either new to the game, the society or are high handicaps.

My dad came along once and was in the group with said guy - who once again came in with over 30 points (I think it was 37 that day) but we all saw blob the first. My dad said that this guy had blobbed at least 2 other holes and was all over the place.

This is our 3rd year of running the comp and the 4 best scores from 8 or so comps are what are used to determine the standings, and this guy has won 2 years in a row and is already top of this years standings - we all kind of make a joke about it now but it's really starting to grate me now - how would you handle the situation?

37 is a good score off 9 with 3 blobs.... it is possible though, but he essentially managed to get 37 points from a possible 39 given he only had 15 holes to get them on (9 x 3 points plus 6 x 2 points).... ie from the 15 scoring holes he parred 13 of them and bogeyed 2 (or offset this with other birdies / eagles etc.)

In our society the cards are randomly drawn out for the groupings. But even so, the cuts for wins are drastic - we have guys playing off 8 for example with a genuine handicap of 15; mine is 5 lower - last month I squeaked 30 points, course was difficult and came in 2nd (winner had 35) - lost another society stroke! Didn't feature this month (26 points), but society golf is about enjoying it and making sure people giving up their time and money all have a good chance of a prize.

 

[Slime]

One for you all - the guy that runs a work golf society I'm in plays off of 9, but in reality he's probably a 12-14 handicap. He always comes in with 30+ points but he never puts himself in the groups with people that are either going to keep an eye on his scoring or are capable to, he's always out with the guys that are either new to the game, the society or are high handicaps.

My dad came along once and was in the group with said guy - who once again came in with over 30 points (I think it was 37 that day) but we all saw blob the first. My dad said that this guy had blobbed at least 2 other holes and was all over the place.

This is our 3rd year of running the comp and the 4 best scores from 8 or so comps are what are used to determine the standings, and this guy has won 2 years in a row and is already top of this years standings - we all kind of make a joke about it now but it's really starting to grate me now - how would you handle the situation?

I'd make sure that I'd not only be playing with him but I'd also be marking his card at the next society day.
I'd NEVER call someone out for cheating unless I'd actually witnessed it myself and was 100% positive that it was deliberate cheating.

 

[Wolf]

No easy way other than to have a frank and open conversation about what has been seen and reported. Say you'll put him in a different group and suggest its as much for his benefit to show there is nothing going on rather than to catch him out. If he kicks off, make it clear its cheating pure and simple and he'll either not bother in future, tell him to accept the compromise and that if it's seen and reported again he's gone

This is quite possibly the worst way you could go about it and to me seems a little forum bravado.

You cannot categorically call someone a cheat to their face without any evidence and not expect some sort of comebacks. You'll either end up in an unnecessary confrontation with the guy or alienate yourself from a large group of others that don't wish to be dragged into it. You will also damage the structure and undertones of the society which surely nobody wants.

By all means chat with the guy but I'd suggest it's more of a we haven't played together in a while let's make sure we're out together next time, then when it comes time to swap cards you get his. Problem solved if he then wants to pull a cheeky one and fiddle his numbers you can approach it there and then in a respectable manner of come on mate that's not right and correct his score he will then know he's been caught out and if he does it in future then you have your right and proof to bring it up in front of others.

Going in as the big man calling someone out straight away when nobody has proven it is not the way.

 

[Fish]

If you were POTY for the A team why have you dropped to the B team? Are your club more likely to win the B team league?

2 reasons, firstly the captaincy changed and his early selections were all his mates who had only just joined, and both the ex-capt and myself, who didn't miss a single match for over 18 months prior, were both subs for the opening match! Secondly they mainly play on Tuesdays where I now have a long run (job) that day starts at 5am, so I'm playing B-team games on Thursdays mainly which now suits me better.

I only helped out initially for the A-team 2 years ago, but with players always difficult to commit, I ended up playing all the time and enjoyed it, many clubs in our area don't have handicap restrictions for the various teams they have, quite a few now only have a combined A/B team so you can be up against any level of player even though you may be a single capper in the A team, the only exception is the scratch team which are all Cat1 or lower.

I was playing for the COGGS (seniors) also but that's on Fridays so the same reason as Tuesdays I've had to drop out of that also.

 

[Kellfire]

2 reasons, firstly the captaincy changed and his early selections were all his mates who had only just joined, and both the ex-capt and myself, who didn't miss a single match for over 18 months prior, were both subs for the opening match! Secondly they mainly play on Tuesdays where I now have a long run (job) that day starts at 5am, so I'm playing B-team games on Thursdays mainly which now suits me better.

I only helped out initially for the A-team 2 years ago, but with players always difficult to commit, I ended up playing all the time and enjoyed it, many clubs in our area don't have handicap restrictions for the various teams they have, quite a few now only have a combined A/B team so you can be up against any level of player even though you may be a single capper in the A team, the only exception is the scratch team which are all Cat1 or lower.

Fair dos, mate. I didn’t actually think you were fiddling the leagues!

 

[Crazyface]

This is quite possibly the worst way you could go about it and to me seems a little forum bravado.

You cannot categorically call someone a cheat to their face without any evidence and not expect some sort of comebacks. You'll either end up in an unnecessary confrontation with the guy or alienate yourself from a large group of others that don't wish to be dragged into it. You will also damage the structure and undertones of the society which surely nobody wants.

By all means chat with the guy but I'd suggest it's more of a we haven't played together in a while let's make sure we're out together next time, then when it comes time to swap cards you get his. Problem solved if he then wants to pull a cheeky one and fiddle his numbers you can approach it there and then in a respectable manner of come on mate that's not right and correct his score he will then know he's been caught out and if he does it in future then you have your right and proof to bring it up in front of others.

Going in as the big man calling someone out straight away when nobody has proven it is not the way.

Wow, are you in the diplomatic core?

 

[clubchamp98]

In the society I played in if you won you lost two shots.
We went up .5 if you didn’t make par .
So I was of 6 won twice so off 2.
It would take time to get shots back so prizes were spread about.
Worked well for us.

 

[Wolf]

Wow, are you in the diplomatic core?

Not diplomatic corps more like Ex Royal Marine. But that being said I'm just not arrogant enough to think it's OK to act like a big man and accuse people of cheating without proof. Especially when that accusation could have knock on effects for the rest of the society causing unnecessary issues.

Get the proof first, then be as direct as you want. Going into battle without true facts and armed only with arrogance is a sure way to lose.