D
Deleted member 1147
Guest
My escape and evasion skills also improvedThat's a novel suggestion
I'll get my coat
Time for a new coach?
- Thread starter rystaman
- Start date
I’ve not read the entire thread, merely the opening post. To be honest, I’m surprised you stuck it until the fifth lesson.
rudebhoy
Q-School Graduate
I guess the lesson here is to do your research before booking a course of lessons with someone you've never used before.
I made the same mistake this year, bought a course of 5 lessons from a pro I came across on Facebook. Had the last one last week, don't feel I'm any closer to solving the problems with my game after 5 hours with him. Tbh, he is probably just as frustrated as I am.
Am off on holiday next week, when I get back, I'll be booking a lesson with the pro who has fixed me twice before. I'm kicking myself for not going to him this year, but the other guy was a good bit nearer and a good bit cheaper. You live and learn.
I made the same mistake this year, bought a course of 5 lessons from a pro I came across on Facebook. Had the last one last week, don't feel I'm any closer to solving the problems with my game after 5 hours with him. Tbh, he is probably just as frustrated as I am.
Am off on holiday next week, when I get back, I'll be booking a lesson with the pro who has fixed me twice before. I'm kicking myself for not going to him this year, but the other guy was a good bit nearer and a good bit cheaper. You live and learn.
D
Deleted member 1147
Guest
I wouldn't book & pay for a course of lessons, unless I knew the pro. I'd start with a one off and see how it goes.
rystaman
Active member
Yeah, that's also a really good point. I think even if that was the ethos the lack of relevant feedback in the session and drills to practice on isn't great and I'd be absolutely fine taking that route if I started an finished a lesson with an improvement in what was being worked on, or understanding the right feeling (not necessarily what is actually occurring in detail).It has taken me many, many months of perseverance and working on what I am getting in lessons (and that’s not the mechanics of a golf swing) for things to start coming together. And they are, but it has taken a long time, and my scoring was very variable to start with - in fact at times it was awful, but that was ok as my score was not what I was looking for from lessons, I was looking to build a more solid base from which to work - the scores will come.
One thing I have not been doing is double guessing what my pro should be teaching me and working on with me - and I couldn’t tell you of any technical aspects of the swing he‘s had me working on - because he hadn’t had me working on or practicing any - indeed for example I know nothing of this ‘extension’ thing of which you talk
My observation from your post is that you have your own idea of what you consider the component parts of a golf swing, and feel that it is these your coach should be focussing on. Maybe he’s not that sort of coach. Maybe he just wants you to hold the club reasonable securely and then help you find the swing that works for you, and you don’t need to understand your swing for that to happen and for it to work for you. Quite a number of coaches are moving to this approach - including mine - it’s not what I for one expected from lessons…I was sceptical at first but it’s bearing fruit.
As my coach tells me…the golf swing is a complex beast, but it is only that due to its many constituent parts; what we look to achieve is simple, we just make it complicated by focussing too much on the parts.
That said of course, if his approach is not technical enough for you then as others have said just change coach.
rystaman
Active member
Good to hear from someone with the same issue. That's exactly where I thought we were going with it also, tightening up the fundamentals to then help and work specifically on it. But after that last lesson and feeling very unsure on what I was meant to be doing with limited feedback I thought ah maybe not...
rystaman
Active member
rystaman
Active member
I am indeed Birmingham based
I think I remember you saying about using Chris before, but I'm not sure if Chris does in-person lessons anymore. And taking a look at his website, it's £150 for a 3-5 minute personalised video lesson eesh...
rystaman
Active member
Tbf I didn't book a course, it was individual as I agree about not booking a course until at least having a couple of lessons. I think in my head I thought okay maybe we're sorting out other things and we were taking the long but better way round... I didn't want to chuck in the towel too early so to speak
TigerTime
Active member
I totally understand your feeling.
I've had a few different coaches since about 2018. I went to the first one when I took up the game and didn't have a clue about the game or the swing. I wanted consistency, I wanted to get to a single figure handicap, I mentioned scoring but now knowing what I know about golf, I meant a consistent shot shape, a tighter dispersion, better ball striking. He focused on hip turn. Did I improve? Yes slightly. I practiced like mad for a few weeks. Went back for lesson two. More drills, went and practiced like mad - no improvement. In all honesty he didn't look arsed in the slightest on the second lesson. Went back for lesson 3 - could tell he wasn't interested in the slightest in the lesson or me and it really put me off. I picked this guy after some research online and through word of mouth. £70 an hour. Madness. He wasn't worth that amount of money for me. He is probably more expensive now post covid and inflation times. He could see how badly I wanted to improve so he probably seen me as a cash cow. I gave up with him in the end. Two lessons he lost any enthusiasm or interest he had and I had already turned into easy regular money for him. Well he was wrong. I bailed. Complete waste of cash.
Second time on a few months later I was looking for something more affordable but with a reasonable reputation. Went to another guy, slightly cheaper at £60 an hour. He wanted to rebuild my swing completely. Gave me about 10 drills in one lesson. It was far too much and I was super confused. Didn't go back to him. More money wasted.
Gave up on lessons then and just enjoyed what I had - and that's when I played my best golf. Height of summer, socialising, winning comps, shooting lower and lower scores on average then I plateaued and began to get worse as the year went on. Then I decided I was going to give lessons another go but it was approaching spring and the good weather was coming in.
Done some more research, a family friend recommend a coach - who was also the coach of a current tour player. So I e-mailed him. He took about 3 weeks to get back to me, understandably probably. He said he was stopping lessons as he wanted to focus on his guys on tour but he recommended someone to me who he had hand picked to take over his spot at the course. So I went with his recommendation. Nice guy, got along well with him. Only had one lesson however, as I was actually playing the best golf of my life out on the course and I was really scared that I'd regress with future lessons. But I did practice what he taught at that lesson. Sadly there was not really any structure to the lesson or from me after either. I'm also not sure I understood why I was practicing what I was practicing as it was never properly explained. Also again, the money side comes into play. So once again, I made a decision to stop looking for lessons and enjoy my golf instead. Sadly once again as the year went on I got worse and worse again. Out of courtesy and because he was a nice person, I sent him a message a few weeks after saying I was just going to focus on playing the game, and not to take it personally. He was nice enough about it but still tried to get me back for another lesson.
Winter was approaching last year and I bit the bullet and went for more lessons. I looked for someone affordable and who would understand what I wanted from the game. £50 an hour. Worked on a few things, actually saw a very small improvement. Then it started to get bad again, I was worse than I ever was - new record high scores. I went back for lesson 6 after what I can only describe as the worst round of my life. It was genuinely like I never picked up a club before on the course that day. The lesson was complete filibuster, we basically spent half the time chatting about pointless ***, and there was little bits of advice. But there was no more technical stuff or swing stuff. Pretty certain they didn't even analyse my swing or what was going wrong. That was the end of those lessons for me. I then took a break for a few weeks and stopped watching, listening and playing the game as I was beyond frustrated. The coach had messaged me a week into that break, asking how I was getting on, nice touch but in reality they just missed the regular income as they tried to get me back for another lesson.
I then came back from a two week break from golf, and have been playing utterly garbage since. My handicap has increased from 16 to 18 in the last month alone. I've genuinely considered giving up on the game and taking up another sport I am regressing that much, even with a break from it, which has only served to make me even worse than before. A good round for me last year was mid to low 80's, now that feels like a pipe dream and I'm struggling to break 90 again.
I understand as coaches, this is their business, their job, their livelihoods, they need to be making decent money, even more so in todays world, but I really get the impression a lot of them are just out there for the easy money. People desperate to improve and become better golfers, who will keep coming back and give them regular income. Sadly, I feel after my 4 experiences those of us who are keen to get better are just mostly seen as cash cows. I'd expect after hundreds if not thousands of pounds spent in money on lessons, range time to practice and equipment and so on - to see some sort of improvement. I dread to think how many hours and days of practice I've put in after lessons only to in reality be no better now than I was in 2018 when I first started playing. People will say I am the common denominator and they would be correct but it's not like I haven't practiced or put the effort in for countless amounts of hours and days.
For me, lessons are not worth the expenditure. I've played my best golf, and got better, when I've not been taking lessons and I've just been out on the course enjoying the game for what it is.
I'd ditch this guy if I were you, the fact you are even asking that question tells me you're not confident on what is happening and that should be the biggest red flag.
I've had a few different coaches since about 2018. I went to the first one when I took up the game and didn't have a clue about the game or the swing. I wanted consistency, I wanted to get to a single figure handicap, I mentioned scoring but now knowing what I know about golf, I meant a consistent shot shape, a tighter dispersion, better ball striking. He focused on hip turn. Did I improve? Yes slightly. I practiced like mad for a few weeks. Went back for lesson two. More drills, went and practiced like mad - no improvement. In all honesty he didn't look arsed in the slightest on the second lesson. Went back for lesson 3 - could tell he wasn't interested in the slightest in the lesson or me and it really put me off. I picked this guy after some research online and through word of mouth. £70 an hour. Madness. He wasn't worth that amount of money for me. He is probably more expensive now post covid and inflation times. He could see how badly I wanted to improve so he probably seen me as a cash cow. I gave up with him in the end. Two lessons he lost any enthusiasm or interest he had and I had already turned into easy regular money for him. Well he was wrong. I bailed. Complete waste of cash.
Second time on a few months later I was looking for something more affordable but with a reasonable reputation. Went to another guy, slightly cheaper at £60 an hour. He wanted to rebuild my swing completely. Gave me about 10 drills in one lesson. It was far too much and I was super confused. Didn't go back to him. More money wasted.
Gave up on lessons then and just enjoyed what I had - and that's when I played my best golf. Height of summer, socialising, winning comps, shooting lower and lower scores on average then I plateaued and began to get worse as the year went on. Then I decided I was going to give lessons another go but it was approaching spring and the good weather was coming in.
Done some more research, a family friend recommend a coach - who was also the coach of a current tour player. So I e-mailed him. He took about 3 weeks to get back to me, understandably probably. He said he was stopping lessons as he wanted to focus on his guys on tour but he recommended someone to me who he had hand picked to take over his spot at the course. So I went with his recommendation. Nice guy, got along well with him. Only had one lesson however, as I was actually playing the best golf of my life out on the course and I was really scared that I'd regress with future lessons. But I did practice what he taught at that lesson. Sadly there was not really any structure to the lesson or from me after either. I'm also not sure I understood why I was practicing what I was practicing as it was never properly explained. Also again, the money side comes into play. So once again, I made a decision to stop looking for lessons and enjoy my golf instead. Sadly once again as the year went on I got worse and worse again. Out of courtesy and because he was a nice person, I sent him a message a few weeks after saying I was just going to focus on playing the game, and not to take it personally. He was nice enough about it but still tried to get me back for another lesson.
Winter was approaching last year and I bit the bullet and went for more lessons. I looked for someone affordable and who would understand what I wanted from the game. £50 an hour. Worked on a few things, actually saw a very small improvement. Then it started to get bad again, I was worse than I ever was - new record high scores. I went back for lesson 6 after what I can only describe as the worst round of my life. It was genuinely like I never picked up a club before on the course that day. The lesson was complete filibuster, we basically spent half the time chatting about pointless ***, and there was little bits of advice. But there was no more technical stuff or swing stuff. Pretty certain they didn't even analyse my swing or what was going wrong. That was the end of those lessons for me. I then took a break for a few weeks and stopped watching, listening and playing the game as I was beyond frustrated. The coach had messaged me a week into that break, asking how I was getting on, nice touch but in reality they just missed the regular income as they tried to get me back for another lesson.
I then came back from a two week break from golf, and have been playing utterly garbage since. My handicap has increased from 16 to 18 in the last month alone. I've genuinely considered giving up on the game and taking up another sport I am regressing that much, even with a break from it, which has only served to make me even worse than before. A good round for me last year was mid to low 80's, now that feels like a pipe dream and I'm struggling to break 90 again.
I understand as coaches, this is their business, their job, their livelihoods, they need to be making decent money, even more so in todays world, but I really get the impression a lot of them are just out there for the easy money. People desperate to improve and become better golfers, who will keep coming back and give them regular income. Sadly, I feel after my 4 experiences those of us who are keen to get better are just mostly seen as cash cows. I'd expect after hundreds if not thousands of pounds spent in money on lessons, range time to practice and equipment and so on - to see some sort of improvement. I dread to think how many hours and days of practice I've put in after lessons only to in reality be no better now than I was in 2018 when I first started playing. People will say I am the common denominator and they would be correct but it's not like I haven't practiced or put the effort in for countless amounts of hours and days.
For me, lessons are not worth the expenditure. I've played my best golf, and got better, when I've not been taking lessons and I've just been out on the course enjoying the game for what it is.
I'd ditch this guy if I were you, the fact you are even asking that question tells me you're not confident on what is happening and that should be the biggest red flag.
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rystaman
Active member
I really resonated with this and the last part about a lot of them out there for easy money. I'm the same, I really want to improve and honestly, I think once I get some semblance of fix with my early extension and better off the tee then I'd look to wind down the frequency of lessons. Again, I'd say after hundreds of pounds spent and hours practising I'd see a marked improvement. My course management and other aspects that I've changed (short game and putting) have but not on anything else.
Sorry to hear about your experiences as well, it ticks me off to no end the coaches who just talk for a chunk of the lesson especially when you're looking at £60 an hour.
And Golf is just ridiculous with prices too, I was a member of a tennis club too up until this year and I'd be spending £20 an hour on a lesson and used to see some actual improvement!
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Jigger
Club Champion
I’d definitely move on but I’d also say that you seem to be expecting far too much at the same time. Theres no digs when I say this, just friendly feedback but lessons aren’t a magic wand and a handful are far from going to make you see rapid progress. I’ve seen multiple coaches and none would offer flexibility advice. For most that’s not their specialism. Also don’t discount coaches without launch monitors. Some can kill you with stats.
I had a coach who went the LM route and he kept quoting the numbers but not telling me how to fix them. It was death by Trackman. My new coach just uses video and has simplified my swing massively.
I had a coach who went the LM route and he kept quoting the numbers but not telling me how to fix them. It was death by Trackman. My new coach just uses video and has simplified my swing massively.
Newtonuti
Active member
Looked into getting lessons with him, he was booked up for months and months into the future.
Newtonuti
Active member
Curious as to which course your lessons was at?
rystaman
Active member
Oh, I 100% agree I don't think they're a magic wand in the slightest. Not sure where you got I'm expecting flexibility advice from though, I was referring to someone else's experience. I would be expecting drills however which I think is the minimum.
I agree there also, chasing the numbers in a controlled inside environment can lead to some bad tendencies when you're actually out there on the course, it's just my preference to see the numbers to see is that ball flight because my face is wide open or a path issue.
Jigger
Club Champion
Sorry I misread you on the flexibility. I like to see the number. The numbers are fine as long as the coach is just using them to explain what they are teaching you but any good coach can tell you from your ball flight what is happening so I’m just saying find the right coach irrespective.
Jason.H
Well-known member
Depends what the pro is working toward with a golfer. Numbers are great as we need to know carry distances.
I know some scratch golfers who have never had lessons and 20+ handicapper who spends a fortune on lessons and has not improved. Personally I’m the non lesson guy I’m learning short game from free instagram vids from Dan Grieve and working with that. That’s gold to me.
I know some scratch golfers who have never had lessons and 20+ handicapper who spends a fortune on lessons and has not improved. Personally I’m the non lesson guy I’m learning short game from free instagram vids from Dan Grieve and working with that. That’s gold to me.
Neilds
Assistant Pro
So you are having lessons, just not in the conventional sense. You aren't self taught or just relying on natural ability
Neilds
Assistant Pro
I sympathise with your experience but wonder if the the lessons were a bit one way. I have found the best coaches sat me down before the lessons and found out what I wanted from them. They also spent a few minutes before each individual lesson and asked what was going well and what wan't. I have had a few mates who just turn up to lessons and expect to be told what to do and it will be all fixed - doesn't happen like that
Had my first lesson 40- odd years ago, and probably seen about 6-7 pro’s for lessons. The 2nd one was excellent, but he retired. And the next 2 were good too, the 3rd one got me working the ball both ways quite comfortably but he got a job outside the industry. The 4th moved 80 miles away. The 5th was a disaster for me. I don’t doubt he was a good coach, having a few tour players visiting for lessons but he destroyed my game for about 6 months. I dropped him and just worked on getting my old swing back.
The next, last, one has been outstanding. After a few lessons, all he needed with me was 10 mins, and he’d give me a couple of pointers.
During those years my h’cap hovered between 4, 5, 6. Apart from the ‘disaster,’ I feel the lessons were more like getting the car serviced, i.e. they just kept the swing ticking over. Why no major improvement? Because I rarely practiced. I played at least 4 times a week, and there was work and family.
Drop the pro you’ve got and find one that works for you. We all have limited time available for golf, fitting it around life/work/family, and wasting time and money on someone who (almost) doesn’t appear bothered is pointless.
The next, last, one has been outstanding. After a few lessons, all he needed with me was 10 mins, and he’d give me a couple of pointers.
During those years my h’cap hovered between 4, 5, 6. Apart from the ‘disaster,’ I feel the lessons were more like getting the car serviced, i.e. they just kept the swing ticking over. Why no major improvement? Because I rarely practiced. I played at least 4 times a week, and there was work and family.
Drop the pro you’ve got and find one that works for you. We all have limited time available for golf, fitting it around life/work/family, and wasting time and money on someone who (almost) doesn’t appear bothered is pointless.
