ball hitting bag who gets penalty
- Thread starter markgs
- Start date
CliveW
Tour Winner
The OP states that it was stroke play, so Rule 19-3 applies. A penalty is only incurred when a player's ball is accidentally deflected by himself, his partner or either of their caddies or equipment (Rule 19-2) which doesn't apply in strokeplay.
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
neither if they are different people!
Foxholer
Blackballed
Eh? What? More confusion! It's Rule 19-3 that DOESN'T apply - as that refers to 'Matchplay'. It's 19-2 or 19-4 (which says see 19-1) that DOES apply!
Mark. Just follow Rulefan's link and read it - it really is that simple!
CliveW
Tour Winner
My mistake, sorry.
Foxholer
Blackballed
Must be something about this thread! :rofl:
must be. confusion, counter confusion and a scenario no-one seems to know the answer too
rulefan
Tour Winner
must be. confusion, counter confusion and a scenario no-one seems to know the answer too
See posts #2, 5, 7 and 21
All very straightforward.
http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Rule-19/
straightforward :mmm:
most of that I agreed was, but it left me asking about that scenario.
Seems very very unfair that an opponent can hit a horrible shot (shank etc) in a tense close matchplay, ball shoots off to the right and hits his opponents bag, who is well outwith the normal playing area, and he gets to take it again.
There's some bad rules in golf, you've just identified another one for me.
rulefan
Tour Winner
The problem lies with having to know if a bag has been left in a position where it might interfere. At what angle does it become a shank? When is a bag in a position where it should not be? Who decides and when?
freddielong
Tour Winner
On the course I play the 10th is a Par 5 where you leave your bag and walk back about 200 yards to the tee and then play past your bags. I played with someone one day who lost a ball with his tee shot off 9 reached into his bag and played another without really looking at it or putting any marks on his ball. When he hit his tee shot on 10 he hit a low pull which bounced once and went straight into the ball compartment of he bag. As his ball compartment was full of similar balls he was unable to identify it and had to declare it lost.
We were unsure whether he should have received a penalty for hitting his bag as well
We were unsure whether he should have received a penalty for hitting his bag as well
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Colin L
Tour Winner
Great story that illustrates how you can never guess the limits of the bizarre things that can happen in golf.
And yes, he would collect the penalty for hitting his bag.
And yes, he would collect the penalty for hitting his bag.
Great story that illustrates how you can never guess the limits of the bizarre things that can happen in golf.
And yes, he would collect the penalty for hitting his bag.
how about this potential.
Club champ final, all square at par 4 18th.
You play 2nd shot to 3 feet to applause from the club
opponent is short of green,
he shanks his chip and hits your bag way right of the green out of eyeline (club champs is yours...at last)
he gets to take the shot again, he holes it, you miss!!!!!
That should've been in Bagger Vance
North Mimms
Tour Winner
Is there a HNSP for bags?
freddielong
Tour Winner
Great story that illustrates how you can never guess the limits of the bizarre things that can happen in golf.
And yes, he would collect the penalty for hitting his bag.
We thought as much but I think the walk back to play his fourth was to much and he picked up
freddielong
Tour Winner
how about this potential.
Club champ final, all square at par 4 18th.
You play 2nd shot to 3 feet to applause from the club
opponent is short of green,
he shanks his chip and hits your bag way right of the green out of eyeline (club champs is yours...at last)
he gets to take the shot again, he holes it, you miss!!!!!
That should've been in Bagger Vance
Wow have you recovered yet
Foxholer
Blackballed
how about this potential.
Club champ final, all square at par 4 18th.
You play 2nd shot to 3 feet to applause from the club
opponent is short of green,
he shanks his chip and hits your bag way right of the green out of eyeline (club champs is yours...at last)
he gets to take the shot again, he holes it, you miss!!!!!
That should've been in Bagger Vance
No different to my 'forgive' statement.
The authorities have clearly deemed that there is a difference between the Strokeplay FC situation - deeming it 'rub of the green', no penalty but play it as it lies - and a Matchplay one - where the opponent has the ability to (virtually) eliminate the possibility of that happening. If, for whatever reason, that opponent does not do so, he bears the responsibility for having his bag in such a position - irrespective of where it is.
This approach is consistent with the approach taken in every other ruling involving an opponent that I have seen - and the consistency is that the opponent does it (whatever 'it' is) deliberately/to gain an advantage.
atticusfinch
Challenge Tour Pro
Here's my question. After the ball hits the bag (in either form of play) can either player move the bag to avoid a repeat? How would you rule in light of Rule 1-2(ii)?
Colin L
Tour Winner
The bags are movable obstructions and can be moved at any time other than moving them out of the way of a moving ball.
atticusfinch
Challenge Tour Pro
Doesn't the removal of any obstruction "alter physical conditions with the intent of affecting the playing of a hole?" Just keying on the language.
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