Hitting another ball on the green

[Jigger]

The below suggests it’s a two shot penalty in stroke play only. Is there anything in the rules that I can be pointed to that suggests it’s a penalty under match play or stableford? A search on the R&A app did not present anything. Is stableford classed as stroke play in the instance (I didn’t check for this in the terms)?

Thanks

11.1a

No Penalty to Any Player​

If a player’s ball in motion accidentally hits any person (including the player) or outside influence:

• There is no penalty to any player.
• This is true even if the ball hits the player, the opponent or any other player or any of their caddies or equipment.

Exception – Ball Played on Putting Green in Stroke Play: If the player’s ball in motion hits another ball at rest on the putting green and both balls were on the putting green before the stroke, the player gets the general penalty (two penalty strokes).

 

[backwoodsman]

As rule 11.1a says, there's no penalty if a player's ball strikes an outside influence - and another ball is, by definition, (see definitions) an outside influence. But the exception goes on to say it is a penalty in the circumstances described. So, it's only a penalty in strokeplay, and not a penalty in matchplay.

Stableford is strokeplay (again, see definitions)

 

[Jigger]

As rule 11.1a says, there's no penalty if a player's ball strikes an outside influence - and another ball is, by definition, (see definitions) an outside influence. But the exception goes on to say it is a penalty in the circumstances described. So, it's only a penalty in strokeplay, and not a penalty in matchplay.

Stableford is strokeplay (again, see definitions)

Thanks for clarifying

 

[rulefan]

The below suggests it’s a two shot penalty in stroke play only. Is there anything in the rules that I can be pointed to that suggests it’s a penalty under match play or stableford? A search on the R&A app did not present anything. Is stableford classed as stroke play in the instance (I didn’t check for this in the terms)?

A very timely question. The R&A have just published a new Clarification effective from January this year.

Rule 11:
Rule 11.1:
11.1b(2)/1 – Ball played from putting green hits another ball in motion on the putting green. A ball is a movable obstruction, including when it is in motion on the putting green.
If it is known or virtually certain that a player’s ball in motion played from the putting green accidentally hits another ball in motion on the putting green, the player must replay the stroke by playing the original ball or another ball from the spot where that stroke was made (see Rule 14.6).(Added January 2024)

See the new thread I posted earlier today.

 

[salfordlad]

A very timely question. The R&A have just published a new Clarification effective from January this year.

Rule 11:
Rule 11.1:
11.1b(2)/1 – Ball played from putting green hits another ball in motion on the putting green. A ball is a movable obstruction, including when it is in motion on the putting green.
If it is known or virtually certain that a player’s ball in motion played from the putting green accidentally hits another ball in motion on the putting green, the player must replay the stroke by playing the original ball or another ball from the spot where that stroke was made (see Rule 14.6).(Added January 2024)

See the new thread I posted earlier today.

I caution readers not to confuse these two issues. The OP relates to a stroke from the putting green hitting a ball in play (ie at rest) on the putting green, which is not the subject of the clarification - the stroke from the green making contact with a ball in motion. The first is the stuff of the 11.1a Exception, the second is adding more public information about the application of 11.1b(2) - they are different beasts.

 

[rulefan]

.... a ball in play (ie at rest) ....

When the Rules refer to a ball at rest or in motion, this means a ball that is in play.

However, your warning was worthwhile although I would expect readers would have spotted the difference..

 

[cliveb]

A very timely question. The R&A have just published a new Clarification effective from January this year.

Rule 11:
Rule 11.1:
11.1b(2)/1 – Ball played from putting green hits another ball in motion on the putting green. A ball is a movable obstruction, including when it is in motion on the putting green.
If it is known or virtually certain that a player’s ball in motion played from the putting green accidentally hits another ball in motion on the putting green, the player must replay the stroke by playing the original ball or another ball from the spot where that stroke was made (see Rule 14.6).(Added January 2024)

See the new thread I posted earlier today.

Can I ask the experts here:

1. If both balls in motion were played from the putting green, presumably both must be replayed from their original positions?

2. As far as I can tell there is no penalty - is that right?

 

[salfordlad]

When the Rules refer to a ball at rest or in motion, this means a ball that is in play.

However, your warning was worthwhile although I would expect readers would have spotted the difference..

Of course it does. I wrote that in to contrast with the very different situation you were writing about (in motion).

 

[salfordlad]

Can I ask the experts here:

1. If both balls in motion were played from the putting green, presumably both must be replayed from their original positions?

2. As far as I can tell there is no penalty - is that right?

Yes and Yes (to be clear, we are referring to accidental contact).

 

[Rlburnside]

I caution readers not to confuse these two issues. The OP relates to a stroke from the putting green hitting a ball in play (ie at rest) on the putting green, which is not the subject of the clarification - the stroke from the green making contact with a ball in motion. The first is the stuff of the 11.1a Exception, the second is adding more public information about the application of 11.1b(2) - they are different beasts.

I’m confused are you saying if a stroke from the putting green hits another ball on the putting green this is not the subject of the clarification? Only salfordlads reply to cliveb seems to contradict this.

 

[Rlburnside]

I’m confused are you saying if a stroke from the putting green hits another ball on the putting green this is not the subject of the clarification? Only salfordlads reply to cliveb seems to contradict this.

I see where I got confused, it was the term ‘in motion’

 

[salfordlad]

I see where I got confused, it was the term ‘in motion’

The scenario in the OP has nothing to do with the clarification that Rulefan discussed - contacts with ball at rest or ball in motion get different treatment. The scenario in cliveb's post was completely different than the one in the OP, but it followed up on the different subject that Rulefan discussed.