Advantages for the flag being left in / out ?

[Slab]

Haven't needed to pull a flagstick out the hole in months. Some of the lads like (need?) it out when the wind bends it towards their line on shortish putts but I just putt these with it in anyway because the ball will jam itself between hole and stick or fall-in to the side. I think there was one fella I was paired with that preferred it out most of the time so I just let him carry on, his choice really
I've never yet had a bounce-out where I was convinced a stick-deflection was the only reason stopping a sure thing, so until this happens a few times I'll just carry on leaving it alone

 

[Swango1980]

I've heard this before (correct pace is 18" past), but it doesn't make sense to me.
Doesn't matter for putts into the centre of the cup, but for putts that arrive at the edge, a dead weight one will drop while one with a bit more pace is likely to go on past.

But, if you hit it dead weight, you significantly increase the odds of being short, or the break taking the ball away from the hole.

Therefore, the ideal pace is to hit it 18" past. Sure, it may still slip out if you miss the line, but overall you significantly increase your probability of holding putts generally.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Haven't needed to pull a flagstick out the hole in months. Some of the lads like (need?) it out when the wind bends it towards their line on shortish putts but I just putt these with it in anyway because the ball will jam itself between hole and stick or fall-in to the side. I think there was one fella I was paired with that preferred it out most of the time so I just let him carry on, his choice really
I've never yet had a bounce-out where I was convinced a stick-deflection was the only reason stopping a sure thing, so until this happens a few times I'll just carry on leaving it alone

This is something I don’t like about leaving the flag in as it damages the hole.

 

[Swango1980]

This is something I don’t like about leaving the flag in as it damages the hole.

Does it? I am a take flag out guy anyway, but have occasionally left it in, and the ball sometimes ends up between flag and lip of hole. It just sits there, not squashed in, so I've never noticed any damage to the lip of the hole.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Does it? I am a take flag out guy anyway, but have occasionally left it in, and the ball sometimes ends up between flag and lip of hole. It just sits there, not squashed in, so I've never noticed any damage to the lip of the hole.

It does at my place due to the wind. If you play late in the day the holes can be well out of round or crowned on one side.

 

[Slab]

But, if you hit it dead weight, you significantly increase the odds of being short, or the break taking the ball away from the hole.

Therefore, the ideal pace is to hit it 18" past. Sure, it may still slip out if you miss the line, but overall you significantly increase your probability of holding putts generally.

Agree there’s more break on dead weight putt & that could take it away... but as putting accuracy goes for most amateurs, the extra break on a dead weight putt might also be taking the ball towards the hole… (glass half full)

My preference is very much as a dead weight putter. If I’m gonna miss-judge the pace by 6-8” (which happens) I want a 6-8” putt left and not a 24-26” putt because I was pacing it for 18” past and had a 6" pace error
I know that might sound a bit like I’m ‘planning to fail’ on my 1st putt but I feel like I still make my share

I wish I could putt with the Ricky Fowler pace (& accuracy of 5 years ago) but resigned to the fact that's never gonna be me

 

[Orikoru]

Agree there’s more break on dead weight putt & that could take it away... but as putting accuracy goes for most amateurs, the extra break on a dead weight putt might also be taking the ball towards the hole… (glass half full)

My preference is very much as a dead weight putter. If I’m gonna miss-judge the pace by 6-8” (which happens) I want a 6-8” putt left and not a 24-26” putt because I was pacing it for 18” past and had a 6" pace error
I know that might sound a bit like I’m ‘planning to fail’ on my 1st putt but I feel like I still make my share

I wish I could putt with the Ricky Fowler pace (& accuracy of 5 years ago) but resigned to the fact that's never gonna be me

I'd agree. If you pace it for 18 inches past, but miss on the low side on a breaking putt, you can easily leave yourself two or two and a half feet. I'd rather pace it for 6 inches past and leave myself maybe one foot left of it for a tap-in.

 

[Slab]

This is something I don’t like about leaving the flag in as it damages the hole.

I can see how it might in certain circumstances but I've never noticed any disfiguring or uneven/damaged holes, even during the rounds in 3-4 club winds (which is pretty regular) If used, the 'extra' plastic liner would prevent it I suppose

 

[Blue in Munich]

I've heard this before (correct pace is 18" past), but it doesn't make sense to me.
Doesn't matter for putts into the centre of the cup, but for putts that arrive at the edge, a dead weight one will drop while one with a bit more pace is likely to go on past.

 

[Slab]

I'd agree. If you pace it for 18 inches past, but miss on the low side on a breaking putt, you can easily leave yourself two or two and a half feet. I'd rather pace it for 6 inches past and leave myself maybe one foot left of it for a tap-in.

Yeah if 'that putt' from Tiger on 16th at Augusta had went in with an '18" past the hole' pace, we'd never have seen 10% of the replays it gets

 

[Mandofred]

I was always told 6" past the hole. I went to a foot past (on level-ish greens) since it works for me. If I'm 6" short, I still get to the hole.....6" further and it's still a pretty simple putt. On our greens, which often have large breaks, I quite often just want the ball to get near the hole (dead weight)....plenty of greens if I go for 18" past and miss.....I can easily be 5-10 feet away.

 

[Deleted member 23270]

Sounds like we have some great pace control putters on here ?

 

[Slab]

Sounds like we have some great pace control putters on here ?

The brain does what the brain does, its a doodle

 

[Deleted member 25575]

I had one ov

Haven't needed to pull a flagstick out the hole in months. Some of the lads like (need?) it out when the wind bends it towards their line on shortish putts but I just putt these with it in anyway because the ball will jam itself between hole and stick or fall-in to the side. I think there was one fella I was paired with that preferred it out most of the time so I just let him carry on, his choice really
I've never yet had a bounce-out where I was convinced a stick-deflection was the only reason stopping a sure thing, so until this happens a few times I'll just carry on leaving it alone

I had one over the weekend the greens had been cored so the ball was almost bouncing and hit the flag, at pace, on one of the bounces and bounced off, I’m convinced that had the flag not been there it would have dropped on the bounce, on a flat green it would have been a mile past though

 

[theoneandonly]

I prefer it left in as it's less messing about and speeds things up, but if it's taken out I'll leave it out. I think it's just an excuse for poor putting for many. If golfers can blame something for a ?shot you can be sure they will.

 

[AussieKB]

Spent my entire life taking the pin out.....decided to leave it one day and hit the flag dead center and the ball came back to me, never again, I have the flag removed, also have seen plenty of times a putt would have been holed if the flag was out only to see it rebound.

Have played with players who want the flag in, then the next player wants it out and so on, very frustrating and only slows down the game.

 

[Orikoru]

Have played with players who want the flag in, then the next player wants it out and so on, very frustrating and only slows down the game.

Whenever you're in this situation it surely only takes a bit of common sense? After a hole or two you know who wants it left in, so let them putt first, then take it our for the flag out guys to putt out.

 

[Imurg]

Yeah if 'that putt' from Tiger on 16th at Augusta had went in with an '18" past the hole' pace, we'd never have seen 10% of the replays it gets

According to Gareth Raflewski, who is coach to several PGA/LPGA players, if the ball is travelling fast enough to go 1 foot past the hole then the effective size of the hole shrinks to just over 2 1/2 inches..if its going 2 feet past the hole shrinks to just under 2 inches and at 3 feet past it's the size of the ball....

 

[clubchamp98]

But, if you hit it dead weight, you significantly increase the odds of being short, or the break taking the ball away from the hole.

Therefore, the ideal pace is to hit it 18" past. Sure, it may still slip out if you miss the line, but overall you significantly increase your probability of holding putts generally.

This for me.
I remember Peltz talking about a Lumpy Doughnut around the hole ( volcano shape) where players plant their feet to retrieve their ball creates a indentation around the hole.
On soft greens like now a dead weight put can miss both ways if it dosnt have enough pace to get up the doughnut.
So I go for 12” past.
Flag out for me.

 

[AussieKB]

Whenever you're in this situation it surely only takes a bit of common sense? After a hole or two you know who wants it left in, so let them putt first, then take it our for the flag out guys to putt out.

That is great until they are on or near your line.....take it out put it back in, take it out has happened numerous times for me, very frustrating, and does not speed up the game.