Bamberdele2.0
Active member
Had a few putts recently where I’ve been denied and always thought it would have dropped if I had taken the flag out?
Discuss
Discuss
Advantages for the flag being left in / out ?
- Thread starter Bamberdele2.0
- Start date
BiMGuy
LIV Bot, (But Not As Big As Mel) ?
Someone scientific* did some proper research recently and determined flag out was best 99% of the time.
*not Bryson
*not Bryson
rulefan
Tour Winner
Not again !!!!
But just to note, the USGA winner chose to leave it in.
But just to note, the USGA winner chose to leave it in.
rulefan
Tour Winner
Others have scientifically determined the same and others differently.
Bamberdele2.0
Active member
If I think back I’ve had a few short putts that have just been wedged against the flag / hole and haven’t even dropped in.
A long putt with pace on would never have given me a chance?
Maybe I’ve been doing it wrong this whole time.
I did try and search threads on this but didn’t find any!
SteveW86
Head Pro
I dont think I buy into 1 way is better than the other in terms of likliness to drop, but I personally prefer to take it out.
Bamberdele2.0
Active member
Likewise.
But when you think you’ve sunk the perfect putt only it see it bounce out off the flag it makes me question everything
rulefan
Tour Winner
Enter 'flag' in the search and select 'search titles only'
Canary Kid
Assistant Pro
I prefer putting with it in, especially on longer putts … but you need to make sure the flag is central so that, if the ball ends up against it, there is room for the ball to break the surface of the hole. Having said that, I would happily agree to the ball having been holed if it is “wedged against the flag” in match play or a social game.
Orikoru
Tour Winner
Advantages For Leaving It In
Personally I leave it in 90% of the time, mainly because it's quicker and less faff. I have started taking it out for ones of holeable length that are not downhill just to remove all possibility of it bouncing out. For downhillers I always leave it in, and at my course you get a lot of quick downhillers that you don't want to run 7 foot past.
Ultimately, for a putt hit at the correct speed and line, assuming the flag is not leaning and it is not thicker than average - the putt goes in either way and it won't make a difference. For anything else it's up to you. Just try it both ways and see what you like best.
- It's quicker as you can putt without someone walking up to take it out.
- Good on downhillers because if you've hit it too hard, hitting the flag will slow it right down and hopefully leave you a tap-in, whereas bouncing over a hole it will roll further away.
- No need for someone to tend the flag anymore on long putts where you can't see the hole clearly.
- Some say the flag being in focuses their aim better on the middle of the cup.
- If the flag is leaning even slightly to one side or towards you, it could potentially bounce the ball out that would have gone in otherwise.
- If it's windy the flag could be moving around in the wind and become distracting.
- Some say the hole looks bigger without the flag.
Personally I leave it in 90% of the time, mainly because it's quicker and less faff. I have started taking it out for ones of holeable length that are not downhill just to remove all possibility of it bouncing out. For downhillers I always leave it in, and at my course you get a lot of quick downhillers that you don't want to run 7 foot past.
Ultimately, for a putt hit at the correct speed and line, assuming the flag is not leaning and it is not thicker than average - the putt goes in either way and it won't make a difference. For anything else it's up to you. Just try it both ways and see what you like best.
Last edited:
D
Deleted member 23270
Guest
I played in a competition last week behind a 3 ball that was flag out, flag in.....flag out, flag in. Did my bloody head in stood down the fairway watching all the faffing about.
Personally I leave it in. The number of putts I have seen bounce away in the time this was brought in has been minimal. In each case the ball was either hit too hard from close in, may not have dropped without the flag in anyway, or the pin was thick and the putt was hit firmly from relatively close. I will check the thickness of the pin and as long as it is not a chunky pin I leave it in.
I have noticed this year a clear move back to people removing the pin. It's slightly annoying after 2yrs plus of leaving it in and it undoubtedly does slow things a little. If they ask though..............and no, I don't do in out, in out etc. Once out I don't care enough to have it put back in.
I have noticed this year a clear move back to people removing the pin. It's slightly annoying after 2yrs plus of leaving it in and it undoubtedly does slow things a little. If they ask though..............and no, I don't do in out, in out etc. Once out I don't care enough to have it put back in.
Orikoru
Tour Winner
People just lack common sense. Yesterday Player A had putted with the flag out, Player B asked me who was nearer, I think it was me fractionally but I told him to go first because I'd be wanting the flag back in for mine (it was downhill - otherwise I'd have not bothered like you). So he putts out, flag goes back in, I putt out and away we go. No flag hokey cokey required if people are sensible about it.
r0wly86
Head Pro
https://mygolfspy.com/flagstick-in-flagstick-out-2019-new-golf-rules/
according to this, it is always better to leave the flag in, by quite a considerable amount
according to this, it is always better to leave the flag in, by quite a considerable amount
wjemather
Well-known member
This was a somewhat misleading headline. The real conclusion was that only 1% of the time would leaving the flagstick in result in holing a putt that would otherwise have stayed out.
The study measured putts that struck the flagstick at specified speeds and angles. Overall, it determined that having the flagstick in/out made absolutely no difference most of the time, but there was a small advantage to removing the flagstick at higher speeds (for off centre putts). The results were also dependent on the type of flagstick being used (width, material, etc.).
The study didn't measure things like visual assistance, flagsticks leaning slightly, or the benefit of having shorter second putts when the flagstick was hit at excessive speed.
Orikoru
Tour Winner
I remember seeing this, and others that said similar. If that's true, isn't it amazing that barely 5% of pros seem to leave it in??
Edit: At our level, this report doesn't seem to allow for leaning flagsticks, non-standard thicknesses, or even the affect of wind.
Pavlov's dog. They are so used it being out.
Orikoru
Tour Winner
Potentially over the next 5 years or so, maybe we'll see more younger players coming through and leaving the flag in then?
need_my_wedge
Has Now Found His Wedgie
A completely non scientific answer, from my own experience. I have had far more putts lip out when the flag is out, than bounce off the pin with the flag in. Personally, I leave it in, I prefer the pin as my target, it's smaller than the hole, and gives a bigger reward when I hit the target correctly.
I'm not sure. If a caddy is lifting it out it doesn't affect the player, it just becomes the done thing. Also, they don't care about pace of play do they? It's glacial and they seem to accept that.
