YandaB
Newbie
You forgot one:
*From 10 feet, you are a lazy sod and will leave the flag exactly where it was. (certianly my vote and Slabs by the look of things)
Advantages for the flag being left in / out ?
- Thread starter Bamberdele2.0
- Start date
*From 10 feet, you are a lazy sod and will leave the flag exactly where it was. (certianly my vote and Slabs by the look of things)
Mandofred
Well-known member
Eh? I'm a lazy sod and I don't understand this...... sooooooo, leave the flag in no matter what?
YandaB
Newbie
If it's in leave it in, if it's out leave it out. Just put the damn ball, I'm not playing for $18million!
Mandofred
Well-known member
Yeah, but I'm playing for £3!!!! (1 front, 1 back, 1 overall) My life is depending on it!!
cliveb
Head Pro
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Not in my experience at my place. Maybe not 50/50, possibly 55/45 In. And many who leave it in say they do so as they can't be bothered taking it out or it makes no difference to them so as it's in when they reach the green they tend to leave it In, but would happily putt with it out if it was removed before their turn.
Crow
Crow Person
Played today, most of the time the flag was out for shorter ones but there were two occasions on longer putts where the flag was left in and it definitely prevented the ball from dropping, One of them was one of mine! 
There were no occasions today where the flag aided a ball in dropping which it otherwise would not have done.
This is irrefutable evidence and I rest my case m'lud.
There were no occasions today where the flag aided a ball in dropping which it otherwise would not have done.
This is irrefutable evidence and I rest my case m'lud.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Ah but you were probably not playing a small ball...Played today, most of the time the flag was out for shorter ones but there were two occasions on longer putts where the flag was left in and it definitely prevented the ball from dropping, One of them was one of mine!
There were no occasions today where the flag aided a ball in dropping which it otherwise would not have done.
This is irrefutable evidence and I rest my case m'lud.
Crow
Crow Person
It was a competition today so you're correct.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Sorry, I should have expanded that. All golfers actually do want to hole the putt, however they are not bothered about a marginal gain of about 0.1% on whether the flag makes it easier or harder to hole the putt physically, and they may not have any mental issues either way on the matter. So, if it is in, it is in and if it is out it is out. They just hit their putt and get on with it.
Yes. No need to ever take them out. Solves the bounce out issue.
Backsticks
Assistant Pro
I did
I did yes. But it does not answer the core question. It presents a headline figure and conclusion for a very specific test, which does not extrapolate to a full answer. It acknowledges that all 2 1/2" are holed regardless. Its test is based on a putt that is at a pace that has a miss passing the hole by 4 1/2". And is based on putts that are within the normal curve distribution of the hole diameter. In the real world, that is a very small % of all putts, which must be considered in an overall evaluation of the benefit or not to ones game of flag in or flag out. The ostensible conclusion that the 99.9% number indicates is that of course everyone should take the pin out. But if you remove <2.5" putts, and an integration tapering very high majority for ones longer than that, remove putts that are short of the hole, ones at a pace less than 4.5" passed the hole, and, ones that are outside the hole alltogether, then you are closer to real world.
I dont know the answer. But say it came out at one putt in a million from all the putts you hit would be gained, while a gain, is it still clear cut that you should pull the pin ?
Read the article ?
I did yes. But it does not answer the core question. It presents a headline figure and conclusion for a very specific test, which does not extrapolate to a full answer. It acknowledges that all 2 1/2" are holed regardless. Its test is based on a putt that is at a pace that has a miss passing the hole by 4 1/2". And is based on putts that are within the normal curve distribution of the hole diameter. In the real world, that is a very small % of all putts, which must be considered in an overall evaluation of the benefit or not to ones game of flag in or flag out. The ostensible conclusion that the 99.9% number indicates is that of course everyone should take the pin out. But if you remove <2.5" putts, and an integration tapering very high majority for ones longer than that, remove putts that are short of the hole, ones at a pace less than 4.5" passed the hole, and, ones that are outside the hole alltogether, then you are closer to real world.
I dont know the answer. But say it came out at one putt in a million from all the putts you hit would be gained, while a gain, is it still clear cut that you should pull the pin ?
Crazyface
Tour Winner
Played today, most of the time the flag was out for shorter ones but there were two occasions on longer putts where the flag was left in and it definitely prevented the ball from dropping, One of them was one of mine!
There were no occasions today where the flag aided a ball in dropping which it otherwise would not have done.
This is irrefutable evidence and I rest my case m'lud.
Was there ever any doubt?
It's this every time.
Crazyface
Tour Winner
Unless the course has these type of flag sticks. Then they can be left in.
Blue in Munich
Crocked Professional Yeti Impersonator
Yes we have, and I can assure you that they still lead to the occasional bounce out, and that can happen on near dead weight putts.
AAC
Well-known member
Fragger should have taken the flag out yesterday, sooooo many bounce outs
Mandofred
Well-known member
If you hit the putt the correct speed, the chances of the ball bouncing off (out of the hole) a normal size flag stick is practically nill.....off a skinny bottom flag stick, less than that. I am assuming you don't want to hit the ball more than a foot past the hole.....now, if you want to hit the ball 5 feet past the hole I can see it bouncing out.
Blue in Munich
Crocked Professional Yeti Impersonator
Well the correct speed is apparently more than a foot past the hole so your assumption is incorrect.
Having played with skinny pins and seen it happen at reasonable pace, I’ll be taking them out for the short ones.
Mandofred
Well-known member
So.....a few inches further than I suggested. I'd say it was about what I was suggesting. 17" past the hole....ball isn't going to be going fast enough to deflect out. A chance maybe, but almost nil. With skinny flag....not at all. I don't know how many people I've seen hit their putt way too hard.....clangs off the flag and declare it would have gone in if the flag wasn't there. I've rarely seen a ball clang off when hit anywhere near the correct speed (17" past according to Pelz). I can't remember it ever happening to me. Ever.
Blue in Munich
Crocked Professional Yeti Impersonator
It may not have happened to you (but you concede it has rarely happened to others); it has happened to me and others I play with. So I’ll keep taking it out for shorter ones.
