World Handicap System - submitting own scores

[Old Skier]

I can't see an Allow PSI Supplementary Scores in settings, so I assume I don't have authority to do that.

Sorry, missed a step

Club/Settings/PSI Settings - then scroll down to Allow PSI Sup Scores

 

[rulefan]

I'd be surprised if it wasn't more common than you think.

Some clubs, well established and maybe expensive, attract more serious golfers. People who are willing to learn the ropes, and will expect they have responsibilities.

Other clubs are run on a much tighter budget, cheap membership and attract golfers of all levels. From serious golfers who play in competitions, to recreational golfer and beginners who are happy just to play with their mates every weekend, but over time may fancy getting themselves a handicap.

Our club fit into the latter. We have no way of reaching out to every single golfer, nor do most really care. We do try though, sending out general emails from time to time to anyone with an email address, and putting information on Noticeboard. We are also not a members club, so we do rely on the Owner to play ball. He does most of time, but he is not a golfer himself, so sometimes he does things differently to what we may have done if we ran the club. But, overall, the club is successful so kudos to him.

It would be a shame if the golfing authorities made all their decisions based on the assumption all golf clubs are run like the top clubs in each county. They'd be wrong. Maybe WHS will run like clockwork at St Andrew's and Wentworth, but it might pose problems in places for clubs with a "culture problem"

As I said, clubs will not be required to have their members enter their own scores. It will be up to the club. I know from experience that the R&A and England Golf have a very good knowledge of the constraints under which many clubs have to operate.

 

[louise_a]

Sorry, missed a step

Club/Settings/PSI Settings - then scroll down to Allow PSI Sup Scores

Same, I only really have access to the Lady Members, although I can generally see other stuff I cannot update them.

 

[patricks148]

its always amusing when someone enter's stableford points rather than gross score in the Live score screen at Nairn Dunbar, esp when the bar is full

 

[Swango1980]

Any thoughts on this, was asked by a member today:

Player has a competition on a Sunday, perhaps an Open somewhere, but normal competition at home club would do.

We are now under WHS. They go out on Saturday for a social round. Go home, enter score on app, then handicap goes up.

They then play the sunday comp and finish in the prizes, maybe even win it.

Handicap secretary arrives at club mid week. They see on the system the player entered a score. However, no card has been submitted. So, handicap secretary has to start chasing the player, and eventually finds out that there is no longer a card. Maybe they lost it or threw it out.

What happens? Delete score and just accept they got a prize on Sunday? Or, trust the score and leave it?

Also, if a player entered score on app, or even PSI, I dont suppose they'd even need to register round on Saturday before they went out? I mean, theyd need to under rules, but what could stop them?

 

[rulefan]

How would that be dealt with now?

 

[Swango1980]

How would that be dealt with now?

The players handicap would not go up for the Sunday, as their score would need to be verified by handicap sec. As far as I am aware, player enters score on PSI, it just sits there until handicap logs onto system and is asked to confirm it.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

In all the material I have seen it talks about scores being entered at the course being played at the completion of the round so playing condition calculation can be made overnight.

It also talks about Acceptable Scores from social golf having to follow the process laid down by the club.

Hence in the scenario outlined the score must count unless the local process states the score cannot be entered until the card is checked by the Handicap Committee. This would seem to go against the spirit of the new system. We are definately in the land of personal integrity with WHS!

One question that did occur to me regarding mobile phones is what is to stop someone pre-registering their intention to play from home and then entering a score some hours later without setting foot on the course?

 

[Swango1980]

In all the material I have seen it talks about scores being entered at the course being played at the completion of the round so playing condition calculation can be made overnight.

It also talks about Acceptable Scores from social golf having to follow the process laid down by the club.

Hence in the scenario outlined the score must count unless the local process states the score cannot be entered until the card is checked by the Handicap Committee. This would seem to go against the spirit of the new system. We are definately in the land of personal integrity with WHS!

One question that did occur to me regarding mobile phones is what is to stop someone pre-registering their intention to play from home and then entering a score some hours later without setting foot on the course?

This, in a nut shell, could be the biggest headache potentially.

Currently, a players handicap will only change once:

Competition been officially closed that they entered.
They submit a supplementary card, but this must be verified by handicap secretary before it goes on their record
Review by handicap secretary.

In other words, the handicap secretary, together with those that close competitions, are in complete control of player handicaps.

With WHS players can put in scores whenever they wish. They are being encouraged to submit swindles as well, England Golf have requested. Once score entered, there handicaps WILL change at midnight, with literally no checks by anybody on Committee. This will be made easier with these apps that are mentioned

Once the handicap secretary finally gets to club, they'll be having to check scores entered on system. They'll need to find associated cards, could be dozens if bot hundreds depending how many players are at club and when you were last there. They'll need to chase missing cards. They'll need to correct wrong scores entered. They'll need to, I guess, delete unsigned cards. They'll need to contact all these players to let them know their handicap could have changed. But, before handicap secretary even had chance to check, some of these players could have been playing in comps off wrong handicap.

That is not to mention golfers who do lack integrity. They could just sit at home and enter scores on an app. They could sit at home all week and enter 10 scores if they wanted. Once they are approached for their cards, conveniently they have gone missing. The handicap secretary has a decision to make. Suspend their handicap or take their word.

Honestly, I think this is going to be the greatest issue without question. As handicap secretary I will have no idea what is happening to players handicaps at any given time.

 

[jim8flog]

That is not to mention golfers who do lack integrity. They could just sit at home and enter scores on an app. They could sit at home all week and enter 10 scores if they wanted. Once they are approached for their cards, conveniently they have gone missing. The handicap secretary has a decision to make. Suspend their handicap or take their word.

.

Where I play the players must register at the club for playing a supplementary score by signing a book in the pro shop , the card must be signed by a marker and the card must be submitted before the end of the day.

 

[Swango1980]

Where I play the players must register at the club for playing a supplementary score by signing a book in the pro shop , the card must be signed by a marker and the card must be submitted before the end of the day.

Yes, and that should happen under WhS

But, as there are no checks before their score goes on record, how can you actually ensure this happens before their handicap changes?

 

[rulefan]

Yes, and that should happen under WhS

But, as there are no checks before their score goes on record, how can you actually ensure this happens before their handicap changes?

What is the marker for?

 

[Swango1980]

What is the marker for?

I think you have missed my point.

If a player enters a score at home, they are not going to have a marker sit with them to watch

If a golfer makes a mistake, their marker isn't going to spot it as they type it in

If they are cheating, they wont have a marker.

If they dont hand in a card, we wont know anyway

Point is, whatever the issue with their score, it has been used to change their handicap. End of.

None of this would be a problem now, as the handicap sec simply would not accept their score

 

[louise_a]

Golf is about integrity and honesty and it would not necessarily affect their handicap, only if the oldest of their 20 scores is one of the best 8.

 

[Swango1980]

Golf is about integrity and honesty and it would not necessarily affect their handicap, only if the oldest of their 20 scores is one of the best 8.

Why do we need a signed card at all then? After all, we can simply trust everyone.

England Golf have already had to suspend player handicaps before, albeit rarely. I suspect clubs sort out most issues, and england Golf only get involved in extreme cases.

However, where action has been taken, clearly any guilty party has done what they have done in full view of Committee.

Under WhS players can change their handicaps without any intervention of Committee, until they finally see the scores have been entered. A player could enter multiple cards over a period of time in which the handicap secretary has not been at club to check. So, of course their handicap could change. And significantly.

Another one. Member A enters a score for Member B, without Member B's consent or even wishing a score to be entered. Handicap changed for the next day. No signed card, so the mess will need to he cleared up when the handicap secretary gets involved. Member A may never make themselves known, but just did it deviously on PSi terminal.

But, if we are OK at trusting integrity, and that players wont make foolish input mistakes, then let's just get rid of signed cards for handicap and let golfers enter scores as and when they wish

 

[jim8flog]

Yes, and that should happen under WhS

But, as there are no checks before their score goes on record, how can you actually ensure this happens before their handicap changes?

My understanding is that with IG the card shows as 'pending' until the H'cp secretary approves it. This is what happens when players submit their medal scores by phone instead of using the PSI screen.

We are yet to go live with supplementary cards but it probaly will when we start to notify players of the need to submit more scores in readiness for the WHS.

There are so few days at the moment when SSs can be submitted we are waiting for the weather to improve and the course to dry out before beginning our briefings which will start with notices about more cards needed.

 

[Swango1980]

My understanding is that with IG the card shows as 'pending' until the H'cp secretary approves it. This is what happens when players submit their medal scores by phone instead of using the PSI screen.

We are yet to go live with supplementary cards but it probaly will when we start to notify players of the need to submit more scores in readiness for the WHS.

There are so few days at the moment when SSs can be submitted we are waiting for the weather to improve and the course to dry out before beginning our briefings which will start with notices about more cards needed.

That's right, it shows as pending and their handicap sec has to approve it before handicap changed.

But, with WHS they can't wait for it to be approved, as it needs to go into PpE calculation and them adjust players handicap at midnight.

Would it be a solution to tag a players WHS handicap if there are unverified scores. If unverified scores result in lower index, player uses that lower index. But, if unverified scores result in higher index, player cannot use that higher index until those score are verified?

From an admin point of view, even if players are honest, could still be a nightmare. Could have over 100 scores a week, which will need to be paired up with cards. Players chased if cards not submitted or incorrect. That's before you start worrying about looking out for any unusual changes in players handicaps that may require action.

From admin point of view, what is done in USA? If players enter pretty much every round they play, does a handicap secretary check through several hundred cards a week?

 

[rulefan]

No. Players are trusted, rightly or wrongly

 

[Swango1980]

No. Players are trusted, rightly or wrongly

What is the point in a scorecard then, at least for general play rounds??????

 

[Imurg]

If players are "trusted" why aren't scores from a solo round allowable..?