Women's safety

[Blue in Munich]

I didn’t realise there was a mass vigil tonight- and the police have gone in to break it up because it breaks Covid restrictions

Just stupid all round and it’s going to make things worse

Apparently they went to court to argue against the banning of the event but lost;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56379248

Police are on a hiding to nothing either way with this one.

 

[ColchesterFC]

I didn’t realise there was a mass vigil tonight- and the police have gone in to break it up because it breaks Covid restrictions

Just stupid all round and it’s going to make things worse

The "official" one got cancelled. The organisers were told by the Met that it wouldn't be allowed due to Covid regulations so they went to court to try to get it to be allowed. The judge rules against them so they cancelled and the "official" vigil became a doorstep one instead. I assume that it is an unofficial one that's gone ahead.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Apparently they went to court to argue against the banning of the event but lost;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56379248

Police are on a hiding to nothing either way with this one.

Yep for me whilst I understand the meaning of the vigil but there needs to be an understanding from them that right now we are still under lockdown restrictions and a vigil could go ahead during the appropriate time. This has just escalated it all now and there are poor generic judgements flying around from both sides

The "official" one got cancelled. The organisers were told by the Met that it wouldn't be allowed due to Covid regulations so they went to court to try to get it to be allowed. The judge rules against them so they cancelled and the "official" vigil became a doorstep one instead. I assume that it is an unofficial one that's gone ahead.

Yep they went ahead with it all despite the courts ruling

 

[clubchamp98]

Just for interest sake I'll recount a recent experience and see what opinion is as to who could have done what to alter the fact I ended up seriously scared and in my head saying "please don't hurt me" repeatedly whilst assessing an escape route.

We live out in the sticks although the A14 runs close to the village. There is a footpath alongside part of that main road about 3/4m outside the village. It's a concrete farm-track and useful to run out and back along it when the paths otherwise are really muddy. A few weeks ago I was running along there when a white BMW came past me on the track. I saw him pull in a little way in front and at that point considered turning back BUT I wanted to do my run so carried on past it. I glanced over my shoulder a few times just to check if anyone got out and when I reached the end of the track to turn around I checked the footbridge that is there was clear (runs over the ditch and allows access to the A14). I started to run back and could see the car was still parked up as the headlights were on. At this point a 2nd car came down the track and parked adjacent to the 1st one with a guy getting out of that and getting in the back of the BMW. As I got closer the 2nd car drove past me, turned around and came back past me and, to my relief, kept on going. My head is in a spin but I'm also planning what I can do to evade capture (I'm not a drama queen but I was bricking it). I swapped sides so if the BMW occupents wanted to grab me I'd be on the driver's side so would get more time to clamber over the fence and run across the fields. I kept glancing over my shoulder and slowed down so I'd have some oomph in my legs if needed. The BMW came past me and kept on going - oh the relief. I could see them drive down the slip road to the A14 but then they stopped and reversed back up the slip road. I'm thinking "they've decided I've seen them and their number plate and are coming back for me"...they didn't.

I've since found out that it's drug related (weed) and the white BMW belongs to a youth in the village who goes there with his mates to buy and smoke the dope. I wonder what their thoughts would be if they knew the impact of their actions. I've also since found out a few women have, like me, experienced this and stopped running alone along there regardless of time of day.

Should I have aborted my run?
Should they have some consideration and, having seen me, aborted their dope consumption that day?
Of the guys on here who run - how scared on a scale of 1 to 10 would you have been?

Nothing happened though.
They probably didn’t even register you were there.
But your brain is making up it’s own scenarios that’s just the way it works.

Expecting drug dealers to stop because you are running is just not going to happen.
But if a lot of people know about these drug deals why havnt the police stopped it.

I don’t run but can imagine that’s pretty scary.

 

[Oxfordcomma]

I think it's incorrect to say that the organisers of the protest tonight lost the court case. The court was not asked to rule on this specific protest, they were asked to rule on whether or not protest could be legal under Covid regulations. In the end, the Met conceded before the case that it could be legal, so there was no decision on this.

So, the protest could legally have gone ahead if the Met had allowed it, this is not about the law but rather about decisions by the Met. They have allowed previous protests but chose not to allow this one ... the one which was a protest by women about a serving Met officer being accused of the murder of a woman. They've misplayed this very very badly I think and my guess is that the repercussions will come back to the Met leadership this week, not the protesters. Priti Patel is already sensing the wind, and asking them for a full report.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

I think it's incorrect to say that the organisers of the protest tonight lost the court case. The court was not asked to rule on this specific protest, they were asked to rule on whether or not protest could be legal under Covid regulations. In the end, the Met conceded before the case that it could be legal, so there was no decision on this.

So, the protest could legally have gone ahead if the Met had allowed it, this is not about the law but rather about decisions by the Met. They have allowed previous protests but chose not to allow this one ... the one which was a protest by women about a serving Met officer being accused of the murder of a woman. They've misplayed this very very badly I think and my guess is that the repercussions will come back to the Met leadership this week, not the protesters. Priti Patel is already sensing the wind, and asking them for a full report.

Yep, it was a case of how best to turn the public further against them, and they found it!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I think it's incorrect to say that the organisers of the protest tonight lost the court case. The court was not asked to rule on this specific protest, they were asked to rule on whether or not protest could be legal under Covid regulations. In the end, the Met conceded before the case that it could be legal, so there was no decision on this.

So, the protest could legally have gone ahead if the Met had allowed it, this is not about the law but rather about decisions by the Met. They have allowed previous protests but chose not to allow this one ... the one which was a protest by women about a serving Met officer being accused of the murder of a woman. They've misplayed this very very badly I think and my guess is that the repercussions will come back to the Met leadership this week, not the protesters. Priti Patel is already sensing the wind, and asking them for a full report.

Having done some more research you are correct in your judgement

Looking at the pictures from over the year of other “peaceful protests” where the police have stood off it looks like they have widely misjudged this all and it’s not great at all

 

[Bunkermagnet]

The words of my wife earlier tonight...."I think we need a little perspective. Yes there are some nasty men, but most men aren't, just as most policemen are safe, most doctors are safe (Shipman) and most priests are safe and not interested in young boys"

 

[SocketRocket]

I think it's incorrect to say that the organisers of the protest tonight lost the court case. The court was not asked to rule on this specific protest, they were asked to rule on whether or not protest could be legal under Covid regulations. In the end, the Met conceded before the case that it could be legal, so there was no decision on this.

So, the protest could legally have gone ahead if the Met had allowed it, this is not about the law but rather about decisions by the Met. They have allowed previous protests but chose not to allow this one ... the one which was a protest by women about a serving Met officer being accused of the murder of a woman. They've misplayed this very very badly I think and my guess is that the repercussions will come back to the Met leadership this week, not the protesters. Priti Patel is already sensing the wind, and asking them for a full report.

The serving Met Police Officer has not been found guilty in a court of law at this time so what is the point of protesting about him being accused.

If the accused is guilty then he is a Murderer and law breaker and as such our laws will administer the appropriate punishment. I cannot see any reason for a protest at this time, what can it possibly achieve.

 

[Oxfordcomma]

The serving Met Police Officer has not been found guilty in a court of law at this time so what is the point of protesting about him being accused.

If the accused is guilty then he is a Murderer and law breaker and as such our laws will administer the appropriate punishment. I cannot see any reason for a protest at this time, what can it possibly achieve.

I think they're using this case as a catalyst to bring people together andpoint out that harassment, attacks, being scared to walk alone at night, etc, are something that women experience constantly? And that that is an unacceptable state of affairs. So not so much about the accused, more about the victim.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

I am disgusted. The Covid regulations, yes, the law is quite clear about gatherings.
These people broke that law quite brazenly, and in effect said, "you won't /can't do anything about it because we are so many"
So when the police did enforce the law, ( the police don't make the law!) a bunch of politicians get up and condemn them.

I'm rather glad I'm old....What a Country!

 

[SocketRocket]

I think they're using this case as a catalyst to bring people together andpoint out that harassment, attacks, being scared to walk alone at night, etc, are something that women experience constantly? And that that is an unacceptable state of affairs. So not so much about the accused, more about the victim.

And what do they propose should be done about it. Shining a light from your phone won't achieve much.

 

[Oxfordcomma]

I am disgusted. The Covid regulations, yes, the law is quite clear about gatherings.
These people broke that law quite brazenly, and in effect said, "you won't /can't do anything about it because we are so many"
So when the police did enforce the law, ( the police don't make the law!) a bunch of politicians get up and condemn them.

I'm rather glad I'm old....What a Country!

Do Covid regulations trump primary legislation though? The right to protest is, to use a phrase much loved by the current government, "enshrined in law". So should that law take precedence over "regulations" which are made up at short notice and not subject to votes in the Commons?

I'm not sure, personally, but it's a very important debate and one which hasn't much been had. I'm not an anti-masker, open the place up, covid-denier. I agree with the vast majority of the rules that have been put in place. But ... where they interfere with human rights which are part of our laws in the UK, there has to be scope for challenge? Bear in mind that in some of the previous iterations of Covid regulations, protests were explicitly allowed. They were not explicitly allowed in the current set, and I think that's were this whole thing comes from.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The serving Met Police Officer has not been found guilty in a court of law at this time so what is the point of protesting about him being accused.

If the accused is guilty then he is a Murderer and law breaker and as such our laws will administer the appropriate punishment. I cannot see any reason for a protest at this time, what can it possibly achieve.

It wasn’t supposed to be a protest - was supposed to a vigil to highlight issues of women being attacked

I am disgusted. The Covid regulations, yes, the law is quite clear about gatherings.
These people broke that law quite brazenly, and in effect said, "you won't /can't do anything about it because we are so many"
So when the police did enforce the law, ( the police don't make the law!) a bunch of politicians get up and condemn them.

I'm rather glad I'm old....What a Country!

The timing on this all isn’t great - there have been multiple demos , protests etc during Covid restrictions and police have stood back and monitored- this time the perception is they have reacted with force and the images not great - not a great look

 

[Oxfordcomma]

And what do they propose should be done about it. Shining a light from your phone won't achieve much.

We're all talking about it, that's a step forwards surely?

 

[RichA]

And what do they propose should be done about it. Shining a light from your phone won't achieve much.

Standing in front of a tank with your shopping bags shouldn't work, but people noticed. I know it's different, but there's a decent history of peaceful protest getting things started around the world and through history. Good luck to them.

 

[SocketRocket]

Standing in front of a tank with your shopping bags shouldn't work, but people noticed. I know it's different, but there's a decent history of peaceful protest getting things started around the world and through history. Good luck to them.

So answer the question, what do they want to happen.

The vast majority of men are not murders of Women and have no intention of creating them harm. The ones that do are not going to take any notice of these protests. We have laws to deal with those that break them. These protests are doing nothing to help unless they have clear objectives.

 

[SocketRocket]

We're all talking about it, that's a step forwards surely?

Not if there is no clarity of purpose.

 

[SocketRocket]

It wasn’t supposed to be a protest - was supposed to a vigil to highlight issues of women being attacked

What is a ' vigil' supposed to achieve? If you want change then you must lay out clearly what that change is and how you propose to achieve it.

It looks to me that those vigilising don't seem to have clue what they want to happen. I keep asking this question but have seen no answers other than vague comments like 'talking about it

 

[Oxfordcomma]

There were two purposes tonight. To remember Sarah Everard, the victim, and then secondly to raise awareness of just how common it is for women to feel scared, for women to be attacked, for women to limit what they do because of fear? With the actions of the Met tonight, I'm not sure the first was truly achieved but I think the second has been.

These are the original 4 tweets from just a few days ago that kicked off this vigil/protest, the purposes seem fairly clear.

We believe that streets should be safe for women, regardless of what you wear, where you live or what time of day or night it is. We shouldn’t have to wear bright colours when we walk home and clutch our keys in our fists to feel safe

It’s wrong that the response to violence against women requires women to behave differently. In Clapham, police told women not to go out at night this week. Women are not the problem.

Come to the bandstand on Clapham Common at 6pm on Saturday the 13th of March to reclaim these streets and our public spaces. This event is for and about women, but open to all. Bring a light to remember those we’ve lost.

We’ve all been following the tragic case of Sarah Everard over the last week. This is a vigil for Sarah, but also for all women who feel unsafe, who go missing from our streets and who face violence every day.