Women's safety

[MegaSteve]

So what's the solution?

For a start...
Listen when genuine concerns are raised...
Take on board what is being said...
Not, as always seems to be the case, make the first reaction of being seek to belittle...

 

[AmandaJR]

Just for interest sake I'll recount a recent experience and see what opinion is as to who could have done what to alter the fact I ended up seriously scared and in my head saying "please don't hurt me" repeatedly whilst assessing an escape route.

We live out in the sticks although the A14 runs close to the village. There is a footpath alongside part of that main road about 3/4m outside the village. It's a concrete farm-track and useful to run out and back along it when the paths otherwise are really muddy. A few weeks ago I was running along there when a white BMW came past me on the track. I saw him pull in a little way in front and at that point considered turning back BUT I wanted to do my run so carried on past it. I glanced over my shoulder a few times just to check if anyone got out and when I reached the end of the track to turn around I checked the footbridge that is there was clear (runs over the ditch and allows access to the A14). I started to run back and could see the car was still parked up as the headlights were on. At this point a 2nd car came down the track and parked adjacent to the 1st one with a guy getting out of that and getting in the back of the BMW. As I got closer the 2nd car drove past me, turned around and came back past me and, to my relief, kept on going. My head is in a spin but I'm also planning what I can do to evade capture (I'm not a drama queen but I was bricking it). I swapped sides so if the BMW occupents wanted to grab me I'd be on the driver's side so would get more time to clamber over the fence and run across the fields. I kept glancing over my shoulder and slowed down so I'd have some oomph in my legs if needed. The BMW came past me and kept on going - oh the relief. I could see them drive down the slip road to the A14 but then they stopped and reversed back up the slip road. I'm thinking "they've decided I've seen them and their number plate and are coming back for me"...they didn't.

I've since found out that it's drug related (weed) and the white BMW belongs to a youth in the village who goes there with his mates to buy and smoke the dope. I wonder what their thoughts would be if they knew the impact of their actions. I've also since found out a few women have, like me, experienced this and stopped running alone along there regardless of time of day.

Should I have aborted my run?
Should they have some consideration and, having seen me, aborted their dope consumption that day?
Of the guys on here who run - how scared on a scale of 1 to 10 would you have been?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Agreed. Some of the comments yesterday about Page 3 were pathetic.

Indeed - often seemingly missing the point I was trying to make and in some ways actually reinforcing it.

I think of my stunning 25yr old daughter...she has never talked to me about abuse or others issues she’s faced from blokes known and not known, but it is clear that she has 100% certain had such very unwelcome attention and when I engage my mind to that fact it is shocking. Because as I had not heard her talk of that stuff, in my head it wasn’t happening to her - and it will have and I was simply ignorant of it. And for as long as I was ignorant of it I would be more likely to be accepting of the milder manifestations of it I would encounter amongst those I know and associate with - and I have to say that that is almost exclusively through golf.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Just for interest sake I'll recount a recent experience and see what opinion is as to who could have done what to alter the fact I ended up seriously scared and in my head saying "please don't hurt me" repeatedly whilst assessing an escape route.

We live out in the sticks although the A14 runs close to the village. There is a footpath alongside part of that main road about 3/4m outside the village. It's a concrete farm-track and useful to run out and back along it when the paths otherwise are really muddy. A few weeks ago I was running along there when a white BMW came past me on the track. I saw him pull in a little way in front and at that point considered turning back BUT I wanted to do my run so carried on past it. I glanced over my shoulder a few times just to check if anyone got out and when I reached the end of the track to turn around I checked the footbridge that is there was clear (runs over the ditch and allows access to the A14). I started to run back and could see the car was still parked up as the headlights were on. At this point a 2nd car came down the track and parked adjacent to the 1st one with a guy getting out of that and getting in the back of the BMW. As I got closer the 2nd car drove past me, turned around and came back past me and, to my relief, kept on going. My head is in a spin but I'm also planning what I can do to evade capture (I'm not a drama queen but I was bricking it). I swapped sides so if the BMW occupents wanted to grab me I'd be on the driver's side so would get more time to clamber over the fence and run across the fields. I kept glancing over my shoulder and slowed down so I'd have some oomph in my legs if needed. The BMW came past me and kept on going - oh the relief. I could see them drive down the slip road to the A14 but then they stopped and reversed back up the slip road. I'm thinking "they've decided I've seen them and their number plate and are coming back for me"...they didn't.

I've since found out that it's drug related (weed) and the white BMW belongs to a youth in the village who goes there with his mates to buy and smoke the dope. I wonder what their thoughts would be if they knew the impact of their actions. I've also since found out a few women have, like me, experienced this and stopped running alone along there regardless of time of day.

Should I have aborted my run?
Should they have some consideration and, having seen me, aborted their dope consumption that day?
Of the guys on here who run - how scared on a scale of 1 to 10 would you have been?

Thankyou for sharing that Amanda...it is important that we hear such as your experience and the better that we hear it ‘first hand’ so that we do not remain ignorant and thinking that this sort of thing only happens to ‘others’ - as you are ‘us’. You are not other.

 

[hovis]

Thankyou for sharing that Amanda...it is important that we hear such as your experience and the better that we hear it ‘first hand’ so that we do not remain ignorant and thinking that this sort of thing only happens to ‘others’ - as you are ‘us’. You are not other.

what sort of thing? Nothing happened! She come across a drug deal. Personally I would've felt uneasy too

 

[3offTheTee]

Sorry cannot cut and paste but replying to post 42.
Should I have aborted my run?
Should they have some consideration and, having seen me, aborted their dope consumption that day?
Amanda. First of all pleased you did not come to any harm and you had your wits about you to consider all options. Whilst it is many years since I went running along country lanes I would have definitely turned back if I had been a lady. Whether I would as a man I doubt but depending upon the situation. How would you have reacted if a similar situation arose this week?

Do not think the BMW driver and friend would have given any consideration to anybody else but so pleased you are safe.

 

[AmandaJR]

Sorry cannot cut and paste but replying to post 42.
Should I have aborted my run?
Should they have some consideration and, having seen me, aborted their dope consumption that day?
Amanda. First of all pleased you did not come to any harm and you had your wits about you to consider all options. Whilst it is many years since I went running along country lanes I would have definitely turned back if I had been a lady. Whether I would as a man I doubt but depending upon the situation. How would you have reacted if a similar situation arose this week?

Do not think the BMW driver and friend would have given any consideration to anybody else but so pleased you are safe.

I've not run and won't run that route alone again. Actually joined a running group in the village which came about from similar experiences of others. Interestingly the guy who told me about the weed smoking also runs along there and basically said "so don't worry, you're perfectly safe and I run along there (and see them) all the time". So we have different emotions about the risk I guess. Oh and yes next time I wouldn't be a stubborn sod and would turn back!

 

[Fade and Die]

Just for interest sake I'll recount a recent experience and see what opinion is as to who could have done what to alter the fact I ended up seriously scared and in my head saying "please don't hurt me" repeatedly whilst assessing an escape route.

We live out in the sticks although the A14 runs close to the village. There is a footpath alongside part of that main road about 3/4m outside the village. It's a concrete farm-track and useful to run out and back along it when the paths otherwise are really muddy. A few weeks ago I was running along there when a white BMW came past me on the track. I saw him pull in a little way in front and at that point considered turning back BUT I wanted to do my run so carried on past it. I glanced over my shoulder a few times just to check if anyone got out and when I reached the end of the track to turn around I checked the footbridge that is there was clear (runs over the ditch and allows access to the A14). I started to run back and could see the car was still parked up as the headlights were on. At this point a 2nd car came down the track and parked adjacent to the 1st one with a guy getting out of that and getting in the back of the BMW. As I got closer the 2nd car drove past me, turned around and came back past me and, to my relief, kept on going. My head is in a spin but I'm also planning what I can do to evade capture (I'm not a drama queen but I was bricking it). I swapped sides so if the BMW occupents wanted to grab me I'd be on the driver's side so would get more time to clamber over the fence and run across the fields. I kept glancing over my shoulder and slowed down so I'd have some oomph in my legs if needed. The BMW came past me and kept on going - oh the relief. I could see them drive down the slip road to the A14 but then they stopped and reversed back up the slip road. I'm thinking "they've decided I've seen them and their number plate and are coming back for me"...they didn't.

I've since found out that it's drug related (weed) and the white BMW belongs to a youth in the village who goes there with his mates to buy and smoke the dope. I wonder what their thoughts would be if they knew the impact of their actions. I've also since found out a few women have, like me, experienced this and stopped running alone along there regardless of time of day.

Should I have aborted my run?
Should they have some consideration and, having seen me, aborted their dope consumption that day?
Of the guys on here who run - how scared on a scale of 1 to 10 would you have been?

your experience is interesting, I think anyone stumbling over a drug deal or any illegal activity would feel uneasy/afraid, as you said you don’t know what you have just seen and they might not want any witnesses. Tbh I think you should have aborted your run or gone another way, you considered it so you realised you was maybe putting yourself in danger...Sarah Everard is thought to have been abducted walking across Clapham Common at 9pm. This is a dark unsafe place to walk, now no way am I blaming the poor girl at all, what happened to her is abhorrent but if she had maybe considered the risk she may have chose another route.

 

[rudebhoy]

read your respnse. You looked at page 3 but knew it was wrong and demeaning. Interseting to see how feel about many of the classic works of art featuring naked images women? Should they be banished like the statues, road names, pub names etc - or are they ok unlike similar images of woen in other formats?

Pretty poor attempt to twist my words there. You asked if I had looked at page 3. I replied that, like everyone else, I had seen it. You then suggest that I am looking at it while knowing it's wrong as if I'm getting some kind of kick out of it. That's pretty low, and I take offence at your insinuation.

As for works of art, I don't have a problem with nude men or women in them. They are not used to demean and objectify and are not shoved in front of the hard of thinking on a daily basis.

 

[AmandaJR]

your experience is interesting, I think anyone stumbling over a drug deal or any illegal activity would feel uneasy/afraid, as you said you don’t know what you have just seen and they might not want any witnesses. Tbh I think you should have aborted your run or gone another way, you considered it so you realised you was maybe putting yourself in danger...Sarah Everard is thought to have been abducted walking across Clapham Common at 9pm. This is a dark unsafe place to walk, now no way am I blaming the poor girl at all, what happened to her is abhorrent but if she had maybe considered the risk she may have chose another route.

Agreed and it is a fine line. I described myself as stubborn because I did appreciate the possible risk but also thought "I'm not letting this sod ruin my plans"...never too old to learn a lesson though and simply wasn't worth it as there was zero enjoyment.

 

[rudebhoy]

your experience is interesting, I think anyone stumbling over a drug deal or any illegal activity would feel uneasy/afraid, as you said you don’t know what you have just seen and they might not want any witnesses. Tbh I think you should have aborted your run or gone another way, you considered it so you realised you was maybe putting yourself in danger...Sarah Everard is thought to have been abducted walking across Clapham Common at 9pm. This is a dark unsafe place to walk, now no way am I blaming the poor girl at all, what happened to her is abhorrent but if she had maybe considered the risk she may have chose another route.

She wasn't abducted on Clapham Common. The last sighting of her was on the A205 Poynders Rd, so she had already walked through Clapham Common and was heading to her home by that point.

 

[Fade and Die]

She wasn't abducted on Clapham Common. The last sighting of her was on the A205 Poynders Rd, so she had already walked through Clapham Common and was heading to her home by that point.

Report I read said Clapham Common, hence searches of the common and lakes...no matter, a 50 minute walk from Clapham to Brixton at night was a poor decision. These are rough areas, She was 5ft 4” walking on her own through some of the most dangerous streets in London at night. Very vulnerable to predators, and there ARE predators out there looking for vulnerable women, it’s unfair but women have to be so careful.

 

[AmandaJR]

Report I read said Clapham Common, hence searches of the common and lakes...no matter, a 50 minute walk from Clapham to Brixton at night was a poor decision. These are rough areas, She was 5ft 4” walking on her own through some of the most dangerous streets in London at night. Very vulnerable to predators, and there ARE predators out there looking for vulnerable women, it’s unfair but women have to be so careful.

Indeed and the most shocking element is the predator was the very type of person we'd expect to protect her.

 

[Leftitshort]

I’m genuinely torn on this. I think I’m part of the the problem. I find it abhorrent what happened last week. I find it really sad that 50% of society live with some kind of fear. I worry when my wife goes out and comes home late. Uber/taxis/walking home all can be dangerous. But.......
Do I objectify women...yep, do I feel irritated when people (men & women, usually those who display their pronouns) maintain all men are the problem...yep. I wouldn’t deliberately intimidate a women, but I’m powerless if she carries around that fear with her. I’m not going to apologise for being white, male & straight.

 

[Fade and Die]

Indeed and the most shocking element is the predator was the very type of person we'd expect to protect her.

Yes that’s the most shocking thing of all.

“Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?“

 

[rudebhoy]

Footage from a doorbell camera shows Ms Everard walking along the A205 Poynders Road at about 9.30pm.

It captures her walking alone from the junction at Cavendish Road, toward Tulse Hill, which lies south of Brixton.

The image appears to suggest she walked through Clapham Common and was heading towards her home.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.s...nts-of-woman-missing-in-south-london-12241505

Walking through Clapham Common was not a good decision. My daughter is at university in Leeds, there is a big park next to where she lives, and I keep telling her to avoid it.

But in this case, it wasn't a factor. And Brixton is pretty gentrified these days, there are far worse places to be walking.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Footage from a doorbell camera shows Ms Everard walking along the A205 Poynders Road at about 9.30pm.

It captures her walking alone from the junction at Cavendish Road, toward Tulse Hill, which lies south of Brixton.

The image appears to suggest she walked through Clapham Common and was heading towards her home.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.s...nts-of-woman-missing-in-south-london-12241505

Walking through Clapham Common was not a good decision. My daughter is at university in Leeds, there is a big park next to where she lives, and I keep telling her to avoid it.

But in this case, it wasn't a factor. And Brixton is pretty gentrified these days, there are far worse places to be walking.

Then that's seen a remarkable change since the days when I used to work there. Sorry but I think you are very much mistaken there.

 

[Fade and Die]

Footage from a doorbell camera shows Ms Everard walking along the A205 Poynders Road at about 9.30pm.

It captures her walking alone from the junction at Cavendish Road, toward Tulse Hill, which lies south of Brixton.

The image appears to suggest she walked through Clapham Common and was heading towards her home.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.s...nts-of-woman-missing-in-south-london-12241505

Walking through Clapham Common was not a good decision. My daughter is at university in Leeds, there is a big park next to where she lives, and I keep telling her to avoid it.

But in this case, it wasn't a factor. And Brixton is pretty gentrified these days, there are far worse places to be walking.

See this is just naive to think this way, during the day it’s cool and trendy and an exciting place to live but at night it’s still one of the most violent places in London

 

[backwoodsman]

Report I read said Clapham Common, hence searches of the common and lakes...no matter, a 50 minute walk from Clapham to Brixton at night was a poor decision. These are rough areas, She was 5ft 4” walking on her own through some of the most dangerous streets in London at night. Very vulnerable to predators, and there ARE predators out there looking for vulnerable women, it’s unfair but women have to be so careful.

I suspect you need to revise your opinion of the area. Poynders Road (the South Circular road) hardly fits that bill. It's not a known "unsafe" place. One should feel safe enough there.

The thing is, she was very very unlucky and the consequences were terrible. I dont know precisely where she was heading (saying Brixton doesnt really pinpoint it) but I'd opine that she'd thought about her route - the south circular is as "main" a main road as you get. And it's not the most direct route to what I know as Brixton. She certainly wasn't cutting through the more secluded streets which may have been more direct.. She should have been safe. And she should to have felt safe. On this occasion, the first of these patently wasn't true, and the second probably wasn't . Which is a sad indictment of society.

 

[Blue in Munich]

I've since found out that it's drug related (weed) and the white BMW belongs to a youth in the village who goes there with his mates to buy and smoke the dope. I wonder what their thoughts would be if they knew the impact of their actions. I've also since found out a few women have, like me, experienced this and stopped running alone along there regardless of time of day.

Should I have aborted my run?
Should they have some consideration and, having seen me, aborted their dope consumption that day?
Of the guys on here who run - how scared on a scale of 1 to 10 would you have been?

Apologies for cutting down your post Amanda, but without doing so the relevant bits disappear. My thoughts, for what it's worth.

I wonder what their thoughts would be if they knew the impact of their actions? They couldn't give a hoot. What they are doing is illegal, yet they carry on in broad daylight, and then compound the offence by driving with that in their system. They'd probably laugh out loud or think themselves bigger men for scaring someone. They do not give a

Should I have aborted my run? Yes. If I remember the Officer Safety model properly, there are only two threat levels; high or unknown. You have perceived a threat, but the level is unknown at this stage. At that point, you have no escape plan (you are thinking about it, but it is not yet formulated) but have prioritised finishing your run over the perceived threat at this stage, and have continued to run towards the perceived threat. Having got past the threat, and potentially got to an escape route (the footbridge? I don't know where it gets you, not knowing the area, but by using it you immediately deprive them of the use of their vehicles and have reduced the contest to a foot race), you've then turned round and run back towards the perceived threat. There is some good thinking in there is as much as you chose the side of the path to increase the reactionary gap between you and them, but you had the opportunity to about turn the moment you saw the threat thus eliminating ityet continued towards it. To paraphrase Jack Reacher, the fights that you guarantee you don't lose are the fights you don't have.

One of the best things you have done is to join the running club; safety in numbers, both from incidents like this and in cases of illness or injury, especially in a rural area.

Should they have some consideration and, having seen me, aborted their dope consumption that day? They should not be doing it at all, but they have no consideration for others as previously discussed.

Of the guys on here who run - how scared on a scale of 1 to 10 would you have been? You know me, I don't get a say on this as I don't meet the criteria to give an answer.

Before I get told that my suggestions are preposterous for suggesting someone shouldn't continue a perfectly legal activity because of the illegal activities of others; this is not about the morals or legalities of the situation, it is purely an opinion on the correct course of action to keep a friend safe where she has perceived a threat to her safety. Yes it is morally wrong that she cannot undertake a perfectly legal activity because of the illegal activities of others, but the response is about ensuring safety, not morals.