rudebhoy
Q-School Graduate
At 9.30 on a Wednesday night?
Women's safety
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At 9.30 on a Wednesday night?
Going off track briefly, and please bear with me. There was a discussion in here a year or so back about glass ceilings for women in the workplace, which also opened up a little on their 'general place' in society, for want of a better way of saying it. Her in doors was the national training manager for a multi-national, and had also been a store manager for another multi-national. We had a discussion about the glass ceiling, how she got on with her male colleagues etc. I was shocked and dismayed by her response. I genuinely don't know where to start with all the crap she experienced in her work life, much of which many males considered banter.
My sister was followed home one night. She didn't make it home in one piece............
We men, as enlightened as many of us think we are, would do well to listen, not just hear, to the stories that many women could tell us.
And I'm with Kellfire. Depending on the circumstances I cross over so that the female feels safer. I do that because of what I've heard from women.
My sister was followed home one night. She didn't make it home in one piece............
We men, as enlightened as many of us think we are, would do well to listen, not just hear, to the stories that many women could tell us.
And I'm with Kellfire. Depending on the circumstances I cross over so that the female feels safer. I do that because of what I've heard from women.
AmandaJR
Money List Winner
Apologies for cutting down your post Amanda, but without doing so the relevant bits disappear. My thoughts, for what it's worth.
I wonder what their thoughts would be if they knew the impact of their actions? They couldn't give a hoot. What they are doing is illegal, yet they carry on in broad daylight, and then compound the offence by driving with that in their system. They'd probably laugh out loud or think themselves bigger men for scaring someone. They do not give a
Should I have aborted my run? Yes. If I remember the Officer Safety model properly, there are only two threat levels; high or unknown. You have perceived a threat, but the level is unknown at this stage. At that point, you have no escape plan (you are thinking about it, but it is not yet formulated) but have prioritised finishing your run over the perceived threat at this stage, and have continued to run towards the perceived threat. Having got past the threat, and potentially got to an escape route (the footbridge? I don't know where it gets you, not knowing the area, but by using it you immediately deprive them of the use of their vehicles and have reduced the contest to a foot race), you've then turned round and run back towards the perceived threat. There is some good thinking in there is as much as you chose the side of the path to increase the reactionary gap between you and them, but you had the opportunity to about turn the moment you saw the threat thus eliminating ityet continued towards it. To paraphrase Jack Reacher, the fights that you guarantee you don't lose are the fights you don't have.
One of the best things you have done is to join the running club; safety in numbers, both from incidents like this and in cases of illness or injury, especially in a rural area.
Should they have some consideration and, having seen me, aborted their dope consumption that day? They should not be doing it at all, but they have no consideration for others as previously discussed.
Of the guys on here who run - how scared on a scale of 1 to 10 would you have been? You know me, I don't get a say on this as I don't meet the criteria to give an answer.
Before I get told that my suggestions are preposterous for suggesting someone shouldn't continue a perfectly legal activity because of the illegal activities of others; this is not about the morals or legalities of the situation, it is purely an opinion on the correct course of action to keep a friend safe where she has perceived a threat to her safety. Yes it is morally wrong that she cannot undertake a perfectly legal activity because of the illegal activities of others, but the response is about ensuring safety, not morals.
All very logical and 100% correct. I should have turned around when I saw them and, if not then, taken the footbridge escape route (it crosses the ditch to the A14 where there are gaps in the barriers to cross towards the village and home). My only excuse, which is lame, is the "I'll be damned if those so and so's are going to stop me doing what I want". Sadly I'm sure that attitude has cost many women. It was an experience that jolted me as can't recall ever being quite so scared - I could hear my voice whining in my head "please don't hurt me, please don't hurt me". It won't happen again as I'd be way more sensible.
Blue in Munich
Crocked Professional Yeti Impersonator
I'm pleased to hear that Amanda, as it will keep you safe but equally I'm not pleased to hear it as I shouldn't have to and you shouldn't have to think that way; you should be able to run without fear.
Blue in Munich
Crocked Professional Yeti Impersonator
Yes. I say that as a former driver on a robbery squad car posted to that division. I'm told it hasn't changed that much since I left.
Fade and Die
Medal Winner
Given the reason for this thread I’ll just stick with my opinion. Statically Lambeth is one of the worst places in London for violent crime.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....ondon-boroughs-youre-most-likely-17591644.amp
I won’t let high property prices, artisan bakeries and £6 flat whites lul me into a false sense of security.
Swinglowandslow
Well-known member
Apologies for cutting down your post Amanda, but without doing so the relevant bits disappear. My thoughts, for what it's worth.
I wonder what their thoughts would be if they knew the impact of their actions? They couldn't give a hoot. What they are doing is illegal, yet they carry on in broad daylight, and then compound the offence by driving with that in their system. They'd probably laugh out loud or think themselves bigger men for scaring someone. They do not give a
Should I have aborted my run? Yes. If I remember the Officer Safety model properly, there are only two threat levels; high or unknown. You have perceived a threat, but the level is unknown at this stage. At that point, you have no escape plan (you are thinking about it, but it is not yet formulated) but have prioritised finishing your run over the perceived threat at this stage, and have continued to run towards the perceived threat. Having got past the threat, and potentially got to an escape route (the footbridge? I don't know where it gets you, not knowing the area, but by using it you immediately deprive them of the use of their vehicles and have reduced the contest to a foot race), you've then turned round and run back towards the perceived threat. There is some good thinking in there is as much as you chose the side of the path to increase the reactionary gap between you and them, but you had the opportunity to about turn the moment you saw the threat thus eliminating ityet continued towards it. To paraphrase Jack Reacher, the fights that you guarantee you don't lose are the fights you don't have.
One of the best things you have done is to join the running club; safety in numbers, both from incidents like this and in cases of illness or injury, especially in a rural area.
Should they have some consideration and, having seen me, aborted their dope consumption that day? They should not be doing it at all, but they have no consideration for others as previously discussed.
Of the guys on here who run - how scared on a scale of 1 to 10 would you have been? You know me, I don't get a say on this as I don't meet the criteria to give an answer.
Before I get told that my suggestions are preposterous for suggesting someone shouldn't continue a perfectly legal activity because of the illegal activities of others; this is not about the morals or legalities of the situation, it is purely an opinion on the correct course of action to keep a friend safe where she has perceived a threat to her safety. Yes it is morally wrong that she cannot undertake a perfectly legal activity because of the illegal activities of others, but the response is about ensuring safety, not morals.
The most sensible post I have read on this whole subject.
And I believe , from someone who knows what these situations are about.
rudebhoy
Q-School Graduate
Not sure why we are even discussing the route she took home. She was abducted by a police officer in uniform who presumably either used his badge or gun to get her into his car. That could have happened anywhere.
If we are looking at how this could have been avoided, we should be asking why an officer who had been accused of exposing himself to female staff in a branch of McDonald's a few days earlier was allowed to stay on duty and to carry a firearm.
hovis
Tour Winner
Was he in uniform?
Blue in Munich
Crocked Professional Yeti Impersonator
We are discussing the route home because you tried to persuade the forum that Brixton is gentrified and a couple of us, one of whom used to patrol there, have a different point of view.
I've not seen anything revealing the details of the offence, so perhaps you could clarify where you got the confirmation that he was in uniform at the time of the offence and that he was carrying a firearm? The normal procedure was for those to be booked in at the end of the tour so I'm wondering when that changed?
I'd be interested to know the extent of the evidence that there is against him on the indecent exposure charges. I'm not suggesting that anyone that exposes themselves to females is suitable as a police officer but I'd like to know exactly what happened and you seem to have the advantage on the rest of the forum here.
Swinglowandslow
Well-known member
A lot of assumptions there? Or you have heard a lot of information I was not aware was in the public domain!
rudebhoy
Q-School Graduate
No need to be sarky. Her choice of route was brought up by another poster who said she was abducted on Clapham Common.
I never said he definitely had had his firearm with him, I said "presumably". If that presumption is wrong, I'm happy to withdraw it.
He had just finished a shift outside the. US Embassy. I assume he would have left there still in uniform, but again if you can tell me that's not normal process, again, I'm happy to withdraw that assumption.
Fade and Die
Medal Winner
I may have been wrong about her being abducted on Clapham Common (you seem to know more facts than most) maybe it was somewhere else, but surely the reason he chose her was because she was walking on her own on a dark street at night? Which was the point I was trying to make, she chose to walk rather than get an Uber, maybe like you she thought it was “gentrified” and she was in no danger.
BTW, no way is she even slightly to blame for this. She should have been able to walk the street’s safely. Sadly that is not the reality.
rudebhoy
Q-School Graduate
I don't know any more than any than anyone else, the site of her abduction has been on every news outlet.
I find it a bit depressing that a wider discussion on women's safety and men's understanding of it has been derailed into criticism of a victims choice of route home (I know you have said you don't blame her, but if that's the case, why bring up Clapham Common and Brixton up in the first place?).
hovis
Tour Winner
I share a changing room with the coppers. All I know is they don't travel to and from work in their uniform and armed coppers never work "single crew"
rulefan
Tour Winner
My impression is that many of the posts in "Laughter - the best medicine" satisfy the definition of misogyny. Perhaps the monitors should take note.
Fade and Die
Medal Winner
After Amanda’s post earlier I was making the link about choices.
I don’t know what business your in, I’m in construction and risk assessment runs through every thing we do. You look at a task, identify any risks then take actions to mitigate them. In everyday life it’s sometimes just called common sense. Amanda saw the risk and decided that it wasn’t quite enough for her to change her route. And she was right. I don’t know if Sarah ran through the risks in her head maybe like you she didn’t recognise them but she made a decision to walk home on her home. That exposed her to the risk.
Again, not blaming her. There is only one person responsible for her death.
Blue in Munich
Crocked Professional Yeti Impersonator
I don't consider that sarcastic given the tone of your post; your comment came across as deflecting from the comments regarding how safe Brixton is, so I clarified why we were discussing it. If you consider it sarcastic that's your choice, but not my intention.
As far as I remember from my involvement with it, there will be an armoury at the American Embassy and officers wil be required to book their firearms into that armoury at the end of their shift. They will not routinely carry them to & from work. The logistics of equipping every DPG officer's home address with a gun safe to satisfy the Firearms Act regulations would put paid to that.
It is also normal practice for officers to have a locker in which their uniform will be left at the end of a shift. I believe it was frowned upon to travel to and from work in "half blues" when I first joined. Depending on duties and shifts it was something that was occasionally done, but travelling to & from work in full uniform as the norm went out some time ago with home postings.
He might well have been in half blues at the time, that wasn't something that I remember being rigidly enforced and I know some officers did, but I would be absolutely amazed if he had swanned out of the American Embassy with a firearm in his possession.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
I didn’t realise there was a mass vigil tonight- and the police have gone in to break it up because it breaks Covid restrictions
Just stupid all round and it’s going to make things worse
Just stupid all round and it’s going to make things worse
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
So what is the answer, if there is one. Unfortunately there are phychopaths, rapists and a plethora of nutcases out on the streets, there are also the vast majority of decent men who would never harm a woman.
I take @Kellfires point that if you are in the vicinity of a woman in a quiet place then be aware of trying not to make her feel uncomfortable but what can be done to stop the person with intent to harm from doing it. I don't know the answer to that one, there probably isn't an all encompassing answer. No amount of protesting or awareness is going to stop man or woman in some circumstances from carrying out their horrendous actions.
The main deterrent must be for the vunerable to do all they can from placing themselves into situations that increase their vulnerability. I know some will take the view that they shouldn't have to do this but there isn't a simple answer, making men aware of women's safety unfortunately only makes a difference to those who arnt going to be the problem.
I take @Kellfires point that if you are in the vicinity of a woman in a quiet place then be aware of trying not to make her feel uncomfortable but what can be done to stop the person with intent to harm from doing it. I don't know the answer to that one, there probably isn't an all encompassing answer. No amount of protesting or awareness is going to stop man or woman in some circumstances from carrying out their horrendous actions.
The main deterrent must be for the vunerable to do all they can from placing themselves into situations that increase their vulnerability. I know some will take the view that they shouldn't have to do this but there isn't a simple answer, making men aware of women's safety unfortunately only makes a difference to those who arnt going to be the problem.
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