Why is hitting a draw good?

[JustOne]

Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

This is my point it all appears to be getting a bit too technical now. So tell me one thing if you swing in to out then what will happen to the ball???

I agree it's confusing.

If your swing AT CONTACT is in-to-out the ball will draw UNLESS the clubface is pointing more right than you are swinging, in which case it will fade.



The ball flight laws are paramount in learning what is going on in someones swing and therefore being able to know what they are doing wrong, or right, according to their ball flight. And how to achieve a desired ballflight eg: If someone wants to learn to hit a push-fade then you need to know what the clubface, swingpath and point of contact need to be otherwise how can you possibly instruct them?

 

[MadAdey]

Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

I agree it's confusing.

If your swing AT CONTACT is in-to-out the ball will draw UNLESS the clubface is pointing more right than you are swinging, in which case it will fade.



The ball flight laws are paramount in learning what is going on in someones swing and therefore being able to know what they are doing wrong, or right, according to their ball flight. And how to achieve a desired ballflight eg: If someone wants to learn to hit a push-fade then you need to know what the clubface, swingpath and point of contact need to be otherwise how can you possibly instruct them?

Far too technical for my liking. That is what I pay my pro for when I have lessons to worry about all of that. I have already said on this post I have Furyk style backswing, comes slightly on the in to out but I have high hand speed so the club face comes through square so I hit a lovely long powerful draw. I am going to wipe this from my head now and thinnk about playing rather than gettin too wrapped up in the technicalities of the swing.

I heard Butch Harmon saying in an interview once that club golfers spend too much time looking into the technicalities of the golf swing. They fill their head with so many thoughts that they forget how to hit the ball.

 

[JustOne]

Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

I heard Butch Harmon saying in an interview once that club golfers spend too much time looking into the technicalities of the golf swing. They fill their head with so many thoughts that they forget how to hit the ball.

That's true because I can tell you that if you are hitting a 'lovely long powerful draw' then you're clubface isn't as square as you might think so it's probably for the best if you didn't know that and just carried on with what you're doing if you're happy... but you have to consider those that are NOT happy and how you might be able to help them (factually) if you don't know what you actually do yourself.

 

[Scouser]

Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

A question for bob..... If u didn't see my swing but saw the ball flight could you tell the swing path and club position

 

[bobmac]

Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

A question for bob..... If u didn't see my swing but saw the ball flight could you tell the swing path and club position

By watching the ball flight and hearing the contact, I think I could make a pretty good guess

 

[MadAdey]

Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

That's true because I can tell you that if you are hitting a 'lovely long powerful draw' then you're clubface isn't as square as you might think so it's probably for the best if you didn't know that and just carried on with what you're doing if you're happy... but you have to consider those that are NOT happy and how you might be able to help them (factually) if you don't know what you actually do yourself.

This is the exact reason why I do not try and teach people to swing the golf club. I leave that to the fully trained and qualified instructors. Ok I may give some tips that are so obvious they need to be said but would never start to look too far into a golf swing. I know my club head is square to my body at impact as I have seen this during a video lesson. All I know is that my swing was good enough to have got me down to a 5 handicap before i had my knee injury.

The point I was making regarding Butch Harmons opinion is that too many people strive to have this perfect text book golf swing. But not many tour pros have it so why do club golfers strive to achieve it. He said that there is only a few of things that you need to do to have a good consistent swing:
1: Have a good setup, body and club inline to the target and a good grip.
2: As your hands enter the hitting zone at the 9 o'clock position with the clubface pointing away from your body, release the hands through to the 3 o'clock position making the clubface point behind you.
He showed a few slowed down swings of different tour pros and they had very different swings but they all had those 2 principles the same.

 

[SocketRocket]

Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

Butch Harmon has made his living from filling peoples heads with swing thoughts. The X factor being one of them.

I would also disagree that understanding exactly what effects the flight of a golf ball is to technical. If you understand it then you can do something about it, if you dont then you can keep paying the money for someone to confuse you and keep hitting into the trees.

This video is of a Proffessional at a golf teaching school showing you the wrong way to shape a draw:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks6DY2Vw3Qc

 

[JustOne]

Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

This video is of a Proffessional at a golf teaching school showing you the wrong way to shape a draw:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks6DY2Vw3Qc

I knew that video was going to make me feel sick to the pit of my stomach - I was right

Just thinking about how many people have listened to that advice (and still swear by it) is frightening.

The one for the fade is 'interesting' too.... I wonder who's prepared to spot the faults in that one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vufDPI0QfCA Any takers?

 

[Scouser]

Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

Sr and Jo obviuoly I am well aware of the mistakes there but others may not be......

It may be helpful if u pointed out the errors for the uneducated.... Which does not include me (honest )

 

[MadAdey]

Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

Butch Harmon has made his living from filling peoples heads with swing thoughts. The X factor being one of them.

I would also disagree that understanding exactly what effects the flight of a golf ball is to technical. If you understand it then you can do something about it, if you dont then you can keep paying the money for someone to confuse you and keep hitting into the trees.

This video is of a Proffessional at a golf teaching school showing you the wrong way to shape a draw:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks6DY2Vw3Qc

Being in aerospace engineering and having several qualifications in this I understand very easily how the golf ball flies. I just think that too many people are trying to over complicate this game. So by going on what you are saying if I fully understand how the golf ball flies and what causes it to react the way it does when I strike it, I will be able to hit the perfect golf shot everytime? When I do not hit the perfect shot I will know exactly why? Bugger me I'm changing my job...I'm going on tour as a golf coach...:whoo:

 

[JustOne]

Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

if I fully understand how the golf ball flies and what causes it to react the way it does when I strike it, I will be able to hit the perfect golf shot everytime? When I do not hit the perfect shot I will know exactly why?

Surprisingly you're not that far off base with that answer.... apart from the part about actually being able to hit a decent shot LOL

Bugger me I'm changing my job...I'm going on tour as a golf coach...:whoo:

LOL Even with a rudimentary understanding of the ballflights (how to create and control them) you'd be better than most you might find in your local pro shop!





FORE!!! :fore:

 

[kid2]

Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

I knew that video was going to make me feel sick to the pit of my stomach - I was right

Just thinking about how many people have listened to that advice (and still swear by it) is frightening.

The one for the fade is 'interesting' too.... I wonder who's prepared to spot the faults in that one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vufDPI0QfCA Any takers?

This might be an awfully stupid question.
But why are these the wrong ways to shape a ball?

 

[JustOne]

Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

In both examples the clubface is aiming at the target.... which is behind the tree... so basically you are aiming at the tree

The draw is infact a pull-hook and the fade is actually a push-fade (almost a push-slice), both could potentially hit the tree.

Not so bad you say as potentially both shots could scrape it round the tree and land on the target, right? Well if that's the case and you learn how to play both of these shots why not just learn to play the PROPER shots in the first place?

 

[SocketRocket]

Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

This might be an awfully stupid question.
But why are these the wrong ways to shape a ball?

He tells you to point the clubface in the direction you want the ball to end up and swing the club in the direction you want the ball to start, this is wrong.

He says to draw the ball around the tree then point the clubface at the tree then swing the club to the right of the tree. If you did that then the ball would fly towards the tree and then hook to the left of the tree.

The correct way would be to point the clubface to the right of the tree then swing in-to-out further right of the clubface direction. This would start the ball to the right then bring the ball back to the left.

This video explains the 'D Plane' and how ball flight is affected. Stick with it and watch it a few times and you will get a better understanding of how your ball flight is affected by clubface and swingpath.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUZ3VYj0oiQ&feature=related

 

[kid2]

Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

He tells you to point the clubface in the direction you want the ball to end up and swing the club in the direction you want the ball to start, this is wrong.

He says to draw the ball around the tree then point the clubface at the tree then swing the club to the right of the tree. If you did that then the ball would fly towards the tree and then hook to the left of the tree.

The correct way would be to point the clubface to the right of the tree then swing in-to-out further right of the clubface direction. This would start the ball to the right then bring the ball back to the left.

This video explains the 'D Plane' and how ball flight is affected. Stick with it and watch it a few times and you will get a better understanding of how your ball flight is affected by clubface and swingpath.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUZ3VYj0oiQ&feature=related

So the statement "Point your clubface where you want the ball to finish is all wrong"?

 

[USER1999]

Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

Completely and utterly.

 

[SocketRocket]

Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

So the statement "Point your clubface where you want the ball to finish is all wrong"?

Yes, the ball takes off in the direction of the clubface, or in his case at the tree.

 

[MadAdey]

Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

I must be missing something here but I feel like I am starting to read the biggest load of crap I have ever read on the game of golf. So what you are saying then is that you need to have 3 different swings to play golf. A straight one, A fade one and a draw one. If I was to swing from out to in then I would have to change my swing totally to do that. I have a naturally fast hand action through impact so I tend to swing on the in to out to keep control of the clubface and make sure that it comes back to the ball square. To swing out to in I am going to have to change my hand release and weight shift so that the clubface just does not close up and give me a big pull hook. If you set up with your body aiming left of target and open the clubface the ball has to start off on the on the line of the swing it is then the side spin that is put onto the ball that will make it move to the right in the air. That is very simple physics and principles of aero dynamics. So let us turn this into a science lesson now then. I am more than happy to discuss this as an experiment.

 

[SocketRocket]

Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

I must be missing something here but I feel like I am starting to read the biggest load of crap I have ever read on the game of golf. So what you are saying then is that you need to have 3 different swings to play golf. A straight one, A fade one and a draw one.

Who said that then? The discussion has been explaining what actually creates the direction the ball takes off with and what makes it bend in flight. You can hit the ball any way you like if that makes you happy.

If I was to swing from out to in then I would have to change my swing totally to do that. I have a naturally fast hand action through impact so I tend to swing on the in to out to keep control of the clubface and make sure that it comes back to the ball square. To swing out to in I am going to have to change my hand release and weight shift so that the clubface just does not close up and give me a big pull hook.

Who said you need to swing out to in? I dont think anyone has suggested you do that.
If you want to fade or slice the ball your swingpath will need to be to the left of your clubface direction but no one is suggesting that you have to do it !!

If you set up with your body aiming left of target and open the clubface the ball has to start off on the on the line of the swing it is then the side spin that is put onto the ball that will make it move to the right in the air. That is very simple physics and principles of aero dynamics. So let us turn this into a science lesson now then. I am more than happy to discuss this as an experiment.

You dont seem to understand the physics of what creates sidespin on the ball. It is not the direction you set your body at, it is the difference between the direction vector of the clubface and the direction vector of the swingpath that creates sidespin. Did you look at the video I posted earlier, that explained it very well.

If you want to discuss this in more detail then please do, I would suggest you look up 'D Plane' or 'New Ball Flight Laws' first though.

 

[JustOne]

Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

I must be missing something here but I feel like I am starting to read the biggest load of crap I have ever read on the game of golf. So what you are saying then is that you need to have 3 different swings to play golf. A straight one, A fade one and a draw one. If I was to swing from out to in then I would have to change my swing totally to do that. I have a naturally fast hand action through impact so I tend to swing on the in to out to keep control of the clubface and make sure that it comes back to the ball square. To swing out to in I am going to have to change my hand release and weight shift so that the clubface just does not close up and give me a big pull hook. If you set up with your body aiming left of target and open the clubface the ball has to start off on the on the line of the swing it is then the side spin that is put onto the ball that will make it move to the right in the air. That is very simple physics and principles of aero dynamics. So let us turn this into a science lesson now then. I am more than happy to discuss this as an experiment.

Without meaning to be patronising I have a question for you to consider......

Why would you want to swing out-to-in?




{haha SocketRocket - you beat me to it!} Grrrrrr....