Why is hitting a draw good?

[JustOne]

Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

I think you will find that tour spec drivers are opened face as they are designed for better ball hitters. ie someone who releases their hands through impact thus squaring the face at impact. It is not that they are designed to fade the ball. Most drivers are designed with a closed face as a lot of club golfers do not release the club head properly through impact so it makes sure they do not hit the ball with an open face I think you will find.

Tour players hit a fade biased club (open clubface) so they can hit a raking draw with less chance of losing the ball to the left (hook). They have no problem swinging from the inside. If anything they are more likely to block it and be looking in the right rough.

 

[JustOne]

Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

I have never heard so much rubbish as some of the posts on swing path. The correct swing path can only go one way. That is from In to square to in again. The ball is several feet to the side of you. Your body turns in a circular movement. So therefore so does the club. Just try this hold the club straight out infront of you and turn your body. What path does the club head take? it goes in a circular path. But as the ball is on the ground the club still takes the same path but on a angle. It is not straight back in anyway.

The club travels in-to-square and in again however the ball is struck BEFORE the point of tangency (lowest point) and therefore the swingpath at impact is IN-TO-OUT.

(It's better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt - Abraham Lincoln)

 

[JustOne]

Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

I agree there is no such thing as back spin, side spin etc, here is just a tilted axis of rotation. I have argued this ad infinitum on here before.

In Murph's defence this is true, he has said so many times before.

That said it's easier (especially somewhere like an open forum) to describe an angled spin to someone on 2 axis, eg: backspin and sidespin.... for ease of understanding even trackman does this

 

[JustOne]

Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

Thought you might reply Brian. I agree with you. Maybe I have not put it right. But read the posts on this tread? Some are just rubbish. i.e. In to out, with an open club face= a draw?????? That will give a pushed slice every day of the week. There are more like that

Using basic numbers: A push draw is created with a clubface open 5° to the target and a swingpath travelling outwards (at impact) of 10° from the target

The clubface at impact is AIMING RIGHT but the swingpath is sufficient to impart draw spin.



(It's better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt - Abraham Lincoln)

 

[bobmac]

Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

In to out, with an open club face= a draw?????? That will give a pushed slice every day of the week.

You are both right.

However if you look at the pic, although the face is open to the target it's closed to the path, and as the path is ITO, its a draw all day.
If the face was square to the path and ITO then it's a block all day.
Clubface rules

 

[MadAdey]

Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

Would anyone like to have Furyks swing?

I already have mate...............:fore:

 

[MadAdey]

Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

Tour players hit a fade biased club (open clubface) so they can hit a raking draw with less chance of losing the ball to the left (hook). They have no problem swinging from the inside. If anything they are more likely to block it and be looking in the right rough.

Yes I think you will find that is what I was saying.....Tour players need the face open at address to make sure they get it square through impact

 

[MadAdey]

Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

View attachment 312

You are both right.

However if you look at the pic, although the face is open to the target it's closed to the path, and as the path is ITO, its a draw all day.
If the face was square to the path and ITO then it's a block all day.
Clubface rules

Nice one Bob. Someone with some sense and knowledge on this.

Swinging in to out does not determine the shape of the shot but the direction it will initially start on.

 

[richy]

Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

Nice one Bob. Someone with some sense and knowledge on this.

Swinging in to out does not determine the shape of the shot but the direction it will initially start on.

That's what I always thought. I was getting confused reading all these posts

 

[bobmac]

Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

The ball flight laws have changed. Sadly some coffin dodgers haven't caught up yet and still talk about the old rules, hence the confusion.

The old laws were swing path = starting direction
Club face = side spin.

Since then, the boffins got the high speed cameras, and discovered that that wasn't quite true.

The gospel being taught at the moment is this...

When the club strikes the ball, the ball's initial direction will be heavily influenced by where the clubface is pointing (although the swing path will still affect it a little. Some say it's 80% club face and the rest swing path).

Then, the direction of the swing path will move the ball in the air, so out to in = left to right.
HTH :fore:

 

[AmandaJR]

Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

Thanks for the clarification Bob as I too was getting confused. My coach showed my this principal using a hula hoop to indicate swing path relative to the direction the club face was pointing. I like to understand the mechanics and why something happens in order to help my brain try and replicate the movement...

The launch monitor thingy he uses also show the degrees right or left the ball started and the amount of side spin which when you relate it to the direction the ball travels also helps.

 

[Piece]

Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

Have a look at a rival magazine's story on this in their December issue. Explains all about shot shape, swing path...

 

[SGC001]

I accept the changes in the ball flight laws and part of D-plane is the angle of attack affecting the path leading to the 'true' path. Effectively 1 degree of down is equal to 1 degree of out and similarly 2 degrees of up is equal to 2 degrees of in.

The ball'll start off at roughly 80% (it does depend on certain factors and will vary) of club face direction and curve relative to the difference between face and path.

In fairness to the old ball flight laws if you take out the truly horrible shots like the pull hook and push slice, which you don't see that often and certainly wouldn't see that often amongst the better players (unless they were trying to hit it) anything starting right of target would be the result of an in to out path (plus relevant face angle) and anything left of target an out to in path (plus relevant face angle). So basically you are underplane if starting the ball right and overplane if starting the ball left.

All of it is still asumming centred hits

 

[richy]

Just so I understand this better, what would cause a push fade/slice?

Would it be an in to out swing but with the clubface way open in relation to the swing path?

 

[MadAdey]

Oh bugger it.......this is getting very very confusing now. Out to in, in to out, 1 degree of down is equal to 1 degree of out. In reality what does all this mean to the club golfer. I am not a pro I am not a golf coach. All this is just making me think too much about how I swing the club and is likely to get in my head. All I know is I have a good position at address and then have a backswing like Furyk. I take it away on the outside but then come on the inside on the downswing, due to the horrible loop at the top of my backswing. But hey I release my hands very fast through impact so square the club up and get a lovely powerful controlled draw.

I am not going to think too much about my swing while it works perfectly. I think I will just stay with one thought in my mind.........
GRIP IT AND RIP IT BABY.....:fore:

 

[timchump]

This post is a bit of an eye opener for me


my bad shot is a hook which i always thought was due to an out to in swing and straight or closed club face.

Hit a few of my pattened hook this morning had a a propper look at my divot (for a change), it was straight! did a small adjustment on the next swing opening up the face a touch and it worked a treat.

I think this sort of knowledge is key,

allows you to confidentally make mini adjustments on your way round, which im sure loads of people do

 

[JustOne]

Just so I understand this better, what would cause a push fade/slice?

Would it be an in to out swing but with the clubface way open in relation to the swing path?

That is correct for a push-fade and a push-slice.*

Most club golfers hit a PULL-SLICE which is different as it starts left.


*Note: It's not so much an in to out swing per se, just it's in-to-out at the point of contact.

 

[JustOne]

Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

Nice one Bob. Someone with some sense and knowledge on this.

Swinging in to out does not determine the shape of the shot but the direction it will initially start on.

No, the clubface determines the direction it will initially start on.

 

[MadAdey]

Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

No, the clubface determines the direction it will initially start on.

This is my point it all appears to be getting a bit too technical now. So tell me one thing if you swing in to out then what will happen to the ball???

 

[JustOne]

This post is a bit of an eye opener for me


my bad shot is a hook which i always thought was due to an out to in swing and straight or closed club face.

Hit a few of my pattened hook this morning had a a propper look at my divot (for a change), it was straight! did a small adjustment on the next swing opening up the face a touch and it worked a treat.

I think this sort of knowledge is key,

It is.

If you can ensure your swingpath and point of contact remain constant then you can control your ball flight simply by opening/closing the clubface (grip)

Likewise if you can control your clubface and swingpath then you can control your ball flight just by altering the point of contact (weight shift)