Why are most blinded by distance?

[theoneandonly]

The average amateur drives the ball about 210 yds. This has stayed pretty static since the arrival of 460cc drivers. You cannot buy meaningful distance.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I really like they way of analysing drop off, dispersion and area covered.

Just to reinforce that most things can be found on the internet, here's maybe an alternative view.
Check out the dispersion area.

(Apols to GM for use of a competitor vid ?)

Interesting vid as I’ve just this year changed from a G10 to G425 (Via a steelhead).

The G10 was our Pros cast-off, £50 out of the seconds barrel. It was not fitted and had stiff shaft and low loft (can’t remember whether it was 6 or 9 - 6 I think) and over the years I worked out how to hit it well, with drives quite low trajectory but pretty much consistently straight and running out to I think the 240-260yd mark…but I have no idea at all what my carry was. Then 18months ago I snapped it.

Got my fitted, more loft, reg shaft G425 6mnths ago (used my old Callaway Steelhead from 18yrs in interim and loved it). As I am learning new swing etc I’ve been on range a lot. And when I am hitting it well I think my carry is looking to be about 220yds - no more than that.

I am hitting ball higher (which I wanted) but I am thinking that I have actually lost distance - maybe 20yds - I have no idea of it’s run out, ground is soft etc…However I think the club (through its forgiving technology) will build my confidence in my swing. I have a short ‘Ramm-like’ backswing (SILR ?) but looking to lengthen it…so hoping that if I can do that I will get my distance back up.

In the end the G425 has currently lost me distance, but the confidence in my swing I believe it will give me will enable me to develop my swing further to hit the ball better and with greater club head speed, and it is that that will give me more distance.

 

[williamalex1]

Years ago, 5 of our group bought the latest Cobra SZ440 with the trampoline face. We all instantly gained distances ranging from 20 to 50 yards, They were ruled to be un-conforming the following year.

 

[Boomy]

You can't compare ap2's with a p790. They are two completely different clubs. Irons are a minefield to compare with the variety they have. Not only do you have the loft difference but now you have the hollow bodies design. I agree that the p790 are extremely forgiving. But they produce very inconsistent numbers too. The ap2's not so much

But that is the thing, you can compare an older iron to a modern iron.. yes there are differences in loft (which can easily be factored in to analysing results) But an iron is ultimately an iron, the P790 is a modern player iron, the AP2 is an old player iron, P790 internal cavity, AP2 external cavity - there alone is an advance in design which has helped with forgiveness. I can and did compare those two irons, and not taking into account distance as the measure due to the stronger lofts on the P790 the forgiveness and increased accuracy as a result was worlds apart. I do understand what you’re saying about comparing apples with apples but that’s the point, modern iron designs and technology has changed them, and they are more forgiving and accurate - quite frankly I don’t give a monkeys about distance, golf is a game of accuracy and skill as far as I am concerned.

 

[Boomy]

The average amateur drives the ball about 210 yds. This has stayed pretty static since the arrival of 460cc drivers. You cannot buy meaningful distance.

But you can buy more accuracy. Distances may not have changed ‘much’ but how more often is the ball in play for the average amateur… how much more are second shots from the short stuff?! As previously discussed for me golf is about accuracy and skill (not smashing 100 balls with a driver at the range) Choice of 280/300 yards wildly off the tee and in trouble a lot, or 240/250 yards and consistently in the fairway.. only 1 winner for me.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I think we all too easily forget that the ball has a major impact on what we percieve to be long distances and the length we hit the thing. Since the modern ball is designed more to fly than roll, roll out distance is a lot less for most as the carry is longer. That makes us think we are hitting the ball further, when it actual fact the total distance isn't much different.

 

[theoneandonly]

But you can buy more accuracy. Distances may not have changed ‘much’ but how more often is the ball in play for the average amateur… how much more are second shots from the short stuff?! As previously discussed for me golf is about accuracy and skill (not smashing 100 balls with a driver at the range) Choice of 280/300 yards wildly off the tee and in trouble a lot, or 240/250 yards and consistently in the fairway.. only 1 winner for me.

I agree hit more fairways ... But in the same way there is no magical driver giving mega distance gains there isn't one that going to give you massive fairways hit gained either.
I hit the ball a long way and wouldn't dream of trading in 50 yds for a few more fairways. I'd take a 80 yd gap wedge from the rough over 180 from the fairway thanks.

 

[Boomy]

I agree hit more fairways ... But in the same way there is no magical driver giving mega distance gains there isn't one that going to give you massive fairways hit gained either.
I hit the ball a long way and wouldn't dream of trading in 50 yds for a few more fairways. I'd take a 80 yd gap wedge from the rough over 180 from the fairway thanks.

Oops - your example is 100 yards of difference ? (not 50 yards) So an 80 yard gap wedge from potentially heavy rough or 130 yard 9/PW from the fairway ? hmmmmm!

There are drivers out there which are much more forgiving than older/previous models. I use the Ping G400 and it’s worlds apart from the Callaway FT-3 Fusion I was using when I last played 11/12 years ago.

 

[evemccc]

I agree hit more fairways ... But in the same way there is no magical driver giving mega distance gains there isn't one that going to give you massive fairways hit gained either.
I hit the ball a long way and wouldn't dream of trading in 50 yds for a few more fairways. I'd take a 80 yd gap wedge from the rough over 180 from the fairway thanks.

I think the clear majority of amateur golfers would too - you’ve just given a 100 yard difference!

But would you take 100 from the rough and probably hazards in the way, vs 125 from the centre of the fairway and best angle in? I absolutely would not..

The importance of not being wayward with the driver and accuracy’s primacy is not in being in the light rough, but in not losing balls OOB or in the v thick stuff —— do that twice a round and you’re already 4 shots back

 

[theoneandonly]

Oops - your example is 100 yards of difference ? (not 50 yards) So an 80 yard gap wedge from potentially heavy rough or 130 yard 9/PW from the fairway ? hmmmmm!

There are drivers out there which are much more forgiving than older/previous models. I use the Ping G400 and it’s worlds apart from the Callaway FT-3 Fusion I was using when I last played 11/12 years ago.

Thats just how much further I hit the ball then your average golfer but your example used a distance way above average , the point being I wouldnt trade my distance for a few more % fairways.
You can pretend all you like that you can buy a good game , but i'm as good as I am through hard work thats both on the course and in the gym ( (and a bit of talent )

 

[theoneandonly]

I think the clear majority of amateur golfers would too - you’ve just given a 100 yard difference!

But would you take 100 from the rough and probably hazards in the way, vs 125 from the centre of the fairway and best angle in? I absolutely would not..

The importance of not being wayward with the driver and accuracy’s primacy is not in being in the light rough, but in not losing balls OOB or in the v thick stuff —— do that twice a round and you’re already 4 shots back

I've no interest in whataboutery.

 

[Tashyboy]

As the Op states, the guy who is after a new driver has scores between low 20’s and low 40’s. A new driver ain’t gonna change that that. His problem is like mine. It’s not distance it’s consistency. And he like me is consistently putting it short down the rhs of the fairway. The lack of distance is due to a bad swing. 15 yards further up the rhs with a new driver is still rammel.
When Tash is outta COVID jail, my first call is to a pro who I played with a couple of weeks ago. He at £24 will hopefully save me spending another £500.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Through the years playing golf I have had 6 drivers in the 12/13 years

Started with a burner
Then a R11
R1
SlDR
M4
SIM

Each one has given me both dispersion and distance gains

Imo it’s down to two reasons - the tech on the driver and also getting better at golf ( swing getting quicker etc )

Drivers improve , how much will be down to how often you change them

If you change each year the gains will be minimal but over a longer period there will be gains seen - a lot of time with dispersion but there will be distance gains

 

[Boomy]

Thats just how much further I hit the ball then your average golfer but your example used a distance way above average , the point being I wouldnt trade my distance for a few more % fairways.
You can pretend all you like that you can buy a good game , but i'm as good as I am through hard work thats both on the course and in the gym ( (and a bit of talent )

Wind it in a bit fella! I’ve never said you can buy a good game, nor am I under any illusion that you can. I’ve said all along that lessons and constructive practice are the keys to a better game. My disagreement comes with people saying that modern clubs aren’t more forgiving, and technology has made no difference in the last 10/15 years, when it clearly has. You can’t buy a good game, but you can buy equipment to improve it and help along the way. Being fitted and trying different equipment during that session is a great way to see what fits best for you, it might be the head that makes the difference, or maybe the shaft but either way it’s all advances from yesteryear. You are also talking a lot about you, your game, how long you hit it - that’s great, you don’t need the forgiveness then, but others may well benefit from it.

 

[Crow]

Just to reinforce that most things can be found on the internet, here's maybe an alternative view.
Check out the dispersion area.

(Apols to GM for use of a competitor vid ?)

If you've bought one of these drivers and your handicap hasn't gone down then the quality of your ball striking has.
What this video says to me is that the average weekend golfer's swing will be 'ier than it was but they won't realise it.

(Oaky, said in jest but I do think there's an element of truth in there.)

 

[Mike79]

Last Xmas decided to get back into golf as hadn’t played for a few years. My driver was a Titleist 915 with a Diamana Whiteboard 70g stiff shaft (wasn’t fitted) and I struggled with it. Picked up a regular flex shaft off eBay and that helped a bit but as I got back into it I found ball speed increasing and the ball ballooning as a result.

While at the range the other day, I picked up a TS3 which had a stiff shaft to try. My intention was purely to try the stiff shaft in the 915 to see if it helped and if it did I’d go onto eBay to find a stiff shaft similar to what I tried. It was a marginal improvement over the ref flex with a better flight. But, the TS3 with the stiff shaft was significantly better.

On the left is the 915 with reg shaft and the right TS3 with stiff.



I will have a play about with the hosel settings next time I’m there and I’m sure I can squeeze a bit more out of it.

If the TS3 puts me 3 clubs closer to the green that’s a huge difference to me. IF I can get it straighter (lessons needed). AND IF that 8 iron instead of a 5 iron is also straighter (lessons again) I’ve got a better chance of being on the green, where that monster drive is forgotten about after yet another 3 putt (putting practice is top of my list for 2022)

 

[Backsticks]

My disagreement comes with people saying that modern clubs aren’t more forgiving, and technology has made no difference in the last 10/15 years, when it clearly has. You can’t buy a good game, but you can buy equipment to improve it and help along the way.

Where is it clear that the changes are improvements ?

By how much would you estimate affects a handicap. As in, if a 12 handicapper today bagging gear from the last 10 years went back to sticks from 25 years or so, would they go out to 18 or so, or ?

 

[Boomy]

Where is it clear that the changes are improvements ?

By how much would you estimate affects a handicap. As in, if a 12 handicapper today bagging gear from the last 10 years went back to sticks from 25 years or so, would they go out to 18 or so, or ?

Oh hello, as mentioned, more than once to you, it has made a clear difference in my game (and that of my PP’s)! I know 100%, without any doubt that if I played with a bag full of 25 year old clubs I would not score as well as with my modern clubs… even down to the difference between a face balanced putter and a non face balanced one. By how much exactly I don’t know, but I suspect easily worse by 6+ shots. I know that if I went back to my 2008 AP2’s I wouldn’t score as well for a start - that is why I tried and got fitted for new irons (and I was fitted for the AP2’s in 2008)

 

[Deleted member 30522]

So are you saying a sim 2 is 30 yards longer than a r11 with off centre hits? That's the clip of mark crossfield.
The point I am trying to make is most golfers think their new driver is the dogs danlges when they are not. You are not gaining 30 yards with a new driver. Even with off centre hits. As a chronic toe striker I can vouch for this. I'm not saying you're not 30 yards longer than before. I'm saying you had a very poor driver (for you) previously

No idea mate, I hate TM drivers, they feel rotten and the shafts are like a string of cooked spaghetti.

I'm saying a new G425 LST was getting a consistent 10-15 yards over my ten year old Titleist D2 910. You're the one making up a mythical 30 yards.

My Titleist was fitted, and fitted with a non-stock shaft, I worked in golf retail at the time, we hit thousands of balls over a winter as you can imagine, my driver was better fitted than anyone on this forum I can assure you.

 

[DanFST]

Not to mention fitting wasn't really a thing a while ago.

Now you can get on a LM, try a bunch of shafts. get the spin numbers perfect for optimal flight.