Why are most blinded by distance?

[BiMGuy]

Does it really matter? If anyone wants to spend there hard earned why should we care . If he was to moan and complain during every round about being rubbish and new clubs will cure him, them you let them know they are a clown.

Some people do seem to care what other people use. Maybe there is a touch of envy creeping in. The British don’t like to think other people are doing better than them!

 

[Oddsocks]

Does it really matter? If anyone wants to spend there hard earned why should we care . If he was to moan and complain during every round about being rubbish and new clubs will cure him, them you let them know they are a clown.

I’m happy for anyone to spend their hard earned, they’ve work for it. The point was that he has a swing like an octopus at a techno rave who’s semi O’d on lsd yet he would rather spend £500 on one stick instead of addressing the fundamental issues within his swing that would benefit the technique on all 13 clubs and not stick a bandaid over it with just 15-20 more yards off the tee.

I asked if a pack of glow sticks was a deal breaker but he didn’t get it….

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I’m happy for anyone to spend their hard earned, they’ve work for it. The point was that he has a swing like an octopus at a techno rave who’s semi O’d on lsd yet he would rather spend £500 on one stick instead of addressing the fundamental issues within his swing that would benefit the technique on all 13 clubs and not stick a bandaid over it with just 15-20 more yards off the tee.

I asked if a pack of glow sticks was a deal breaker but he didn’t get it….

Didn't know you'd seen my swing. I agree with you that sometime investment in lessons rather than a new club would pay richer dividends, and by default of a better technique longer distances anyway

 

[Oddsocks]

Exactly homeslice! This PP doesn’t have a bad shot to have one fault, he could miss via a block, pull, snap hook or slice. Clearly there are underlying issues.

 

[Foxholer]

Where is it clear that the changes are improvements ?

By how much would you estimate affects a handicap. As in, if a 12 handicapper today bagging gear from the last 10 years went back to sticks from 25 years or so, would they go out to 18 or so, or ?

Quite likely! Certainly headed that direction as opposed to the other. If it was 50+ years ago, they would almost certainly suffer, so simply interpolate for years/cap in between.

 

[Lump]

I’m happy for anyone to spend their hard earned, they’ve work for it. The point was that he has a swing like an octopus at a techno rave who’s semi O’d on lsd yet he would rather spend £500 on one stick instead of addressing the fundamental issues within his swing that would benefit the technique on all 13 clubs and not stick a bandaid over it with just 15-20 more yards off the tee.

I asked if a pack of glow sticks was a deal breaker but he didn’t get it….

I’m a massive believer in letting people be. You can’t solve the puzzle for them

 

[Foxholer]

I used to drive the ball a good distance, but the consistency was nowhere and so many times I was reloading or chipping out or taking an unplayable.
I decided to get fitted at Precision Golf, and while it cost me a good bit, I now have I driver I can trust even with an average to mediocre swing on it. I've lost 10 yards, maybe 15, but I'm now playing from the fairway or first cut so much more than ever before. I'm probably hitting it about 230 - 240 now, but for more consistent.
I got the Ping G425 SFT, which has a 23gram weight in the heel to help me square the face on return, with the Aldila NV Green, 65gram stiff shaft. Does it work all the time? No. Does it guarantee me par every hole? No. Do I fear pulling it out of the bag on most par 4s and all par 5s? NO!
It was all about consistency and finding the short stuff for me, so losing a few yards didn’t bother me.
The Sim 2 Max which is allegedly a bombers dream saw me hit three balls and then hand it straight back, as I was carving it miles right.
So, I'm the opposite of chasing distance!

And have you gained the money it cost you back in more sweeps/comps? Hell no! And I was one of their early customers - when they were in Thorpe, so know the cost and how good they are. But the pleasure of having the confidence to swing the Driver properly, as opposed to 'defensively', and know your scores will be better than before, more than makes the cost worthwhile!

 

[Bratty]

And have you gained the money it cost you back in more sweeps/comps? Hell no! And I was one of their early customers - when they were in Thorpe, so know the cost and how good they are. But the pleasure of having the confidence to swing the Driver properly, as opposed to 'defensively', and know your scores will be better than before, more than makes the cost worthwhile!

Nope, and highly unlikely I ever will. Do I care? Nope. ?
Today, I hit 7 of 10 fairways with it today and that is more than enough reward for me. Unheard of with any previous driver.

 

[BigPhil14]

Always a fun discussion! As some people have mentioned before, I feel like a players natural abilities/ tenancies will have a huge influence on their thoughts on it. For a lower handicap player, they would see extra distance (from a new club) as a bonus as they would assume that that will also come with the same (or better?) accuracy, whereas a lot of the discussions here relate to more distance = bigger misses and better off spending the money on lessons. From my experience, last year I went from a 20 year old Titleist 975J (stiff shaft 10.5 degree) to the Sim 2 (x stiff and 8.75 degree) and I have comfortably gained 15 yards on pured hits and probably 20-30 years on average drives, plus am way more accurate now because of the specs and that it's so much easier to hit (a mix of head being twice the size and more suited to my swing these days - fitting was very different back then). From that perspective, spending the money on the new driver has been a great investment for me, however that is most likely due to the huge upgrade in technology over 20 years and I wouldn't expect to see that level of upgrade if I bought a new driver in the next year or 2. On the flip side, as I am naturally a long hitter anyway, for my irons I specifically didn't go for a distance iron as it wouldn't provide me with much advantage. I also made the decision to not go to precision golf to get fitted and went to somewhere that fits more stock shafts, as I felt the £1k I'd save by not using speciality shafts would be better spent on lessons as I felt that was the best combination for the money spent!

One of my regular playing partners is an average length hitter and mid handicap, and we ended up playing a scramble together a few months back, and he kept on commenting how different golf is when you're hitting short irons/wedges into each green than having to hit hybrids/long irons, so now he is very much on the look out for anything which can increase his distance and give him less into greens. His swing is slow and steady and he's pretty accurate, so if he can keep the same swing and get a slightly 'hotter' driver, he would happily spend £400 to find that extra 15 yards through fitting, as he now sees extra distance as the key.

I do agree with Oddsocks initial comment though that if you don't have a somewhat repeatable swing, then spending a fortune on a new club that can theoretically provide extra distance most likely isn't going to help your game and lessons would be a better investment! It all comes down to the fact everyone plays the game for different reasons, and everyone should do whatever makes them happy, whether that's having shiny clubs that put it into the woods or playing an iron off every tee to try and get a lower score.

 

[Oddsocks]

Always a fun discussion! As some people have mentioned before, I feel like a players natural abilities/ tenancies will have a huge influence on their thoughts on it. For a lower handicap player, they would see extra distance (from a new club) as a bonus as they would assume that that will also come with the same (or better?) accuracy, whereas a lot of the discussions here relate to more distance = bigger misses and better off spending the money on lessons. From my experience, last year I went from a 20 year old Titleist 975J (stiff shaft 10.5 degree) to the Sim 2 (x stiff and 8.75 degree) and I have comfortably gained 15 yards on pured hits and probably 20-30 years on average drives, plus am way more accurate now because of the specs and that it's so much easier to hit (a mix of head being twice the size and more suited to my swing these days - fitting was very different back then). From that perspective, spending the money on the new driver has been a great investment for me, however that is most likely due to the huge upgrade in technology over 20 years and I wouldn't expect to see that level of upgrade if I bought a new driver in the next year or 2. On the flip side, as I am naturally a long hitter anyway, for my irons I specifically didn't go for a distance iron as it wouldn't provide me with much advantage. I also made the decision to not go to precision golf to get fitted and went to somewhere that fits more stock shafts, as I felt the £1k I'd save by not using speciality shafts would be better spent on lessons as I felt that was the best combination for the money spent!

One of my regular playing partners is an average length hitter and mid handicap, and we ended up playing a scramble together a few months back, and he kept on commenting how different golf is when you're hitting short irons/wedges into each green than having to hit hybrids/long irons, so now he is very much on the look out for anything which can increase his distance and give him less into greens. His swing is slow and steady and he's pretty accurate, so if he can keep the same swing and get a slightly 'hotter' driver, he would happily spend £400 to find that extra 15 yards through fitting, as he now sees extra distance as the key.

I do agree with Oddsocks initial comment though that if you don't have a somewhat repeatable swing, then spending a fortune on a new club that can theoretically provide extra distance most likely isn't going to help your game and lessons would be a better investment! It all comes down to the fact everyone plays the game for different reasons, and everyone should do whatever makes them happy, whether that's having shiny clubs that put it into the woods or playing an iron off every tee to try and get a lower score.

Like this post, gives it from both sides.

If you have a very repetitive swing then the investment “could” be worth it, if however you stand over the ball and have no idea of the potential shot spend the money on a lottery ticket!

 

[Backsticks]

Thats an interesting one BigPhil. And those are the gains we would expect, but its a little bit comparing apples and oranges. That time was one of the big changes in golf - hickory to steel, wood to metal, metal to titanium 460cc being similar step changes in what the club would deliver. Within these big phases there is no real development though - the manufacturers focus on a sort of blind by science messaging, dicsussing MOI (given that COR was capped), and cloudy non scientific elements like forgiveness. What they carefully avoid is linking such blurb directly to improvement in your golf.

 

[Mike79]

Looks like you've found a reasonable, or even great, upgrade! As long as you can get on with the sound! Certainly, the Stiff shaft seems likely to be nearer your optimum. Worth going back to the Whiteboard to see how that performs now? Would it work in the TS3? WB's (low launch, low spin) attributes actually 'clash' slightly with TS2/3's design philosophy of high launch, low spin. The shaft in the club you 'auditioned' might have been simply perfect for you!
TS2/3 were apparently a major change of approach for Titleist - much more emphasis on distance than their usual accuracy emphasis.

Of course, every new toy works well until you hand over the cash!

Unfortunately the Whiteboard has gone - sold following the purchase of the reg flex.

Should have kept it as the £30 it got me could potentially have saved me some ££ after I got back into it. But… I’m sure the TS3 has gained me more and was a cracking deal

 

[BigPhil14]

Thats an interesting one BigPhil. And those are the gains we would expect, but its a little bit comparing apples and oranges. That time was one of the big changes in golf - hickory to steel, wood to metal, metal to titanium 460cc being similar step changes in what the club would deliver. Within these big phases there is no real development though - the manufacturers focus on a sort of blind by science messaging, dicsussing MOI (given that COR was capped), and cloudy non scientific elements like forgiveness. What they carefully avoid is linking such blurb directly to improvement in your golf.

Yes, I fully agree, which is why I said that I wouldn't expect such large changes if I were to buy a new club in the near future (unless rules change). I feel the main apple to apple comparison would be if someone was not fitted for a club, and then purchased a new club which was fitted. You'd like to think that getting the best suited shaft and degree of loft should help increase both distance and accuracy than a club which is set up completely wrong for someone, but again this need some kind of consistent swing to achieve a benefit/correct fitting. I agree that if someone was moving from a fitted club to another fitted club of a similar quality then all they would be getting was a shiny new toy, but equally if that improves their confidence and makes them happy, good for them (even if lessons may have been the smarter investment!).

 

[Sats]

Distance will creep into scores at some point - for example at my course the 7th, 10th, 12th and 18th are longer par fours around the 400 yard plus mark, provided I get a good drive away I'm hitting a 6 - 8 iron into the green. There are a lot of people I know that can't ever hit those greens in 2.
Granted there are those who accept those holes are like par 5 for them, but they will never par let alone birdie those holes and will have to rely on getting good scores over the other holes.
This is when being able to hit it further counts.

 

[timd77]

So, which driver hits it the furthest, on line and with the most forgiveness? Asking for a friend.

 

[RichA]

So, which driver hits it the furthest, on line and with the most forgiveness? Asking for a friend.

Everyone else's.

 

[Voyager EMH]

So, which driver hits it the furthest, on line and with the most forgiveness? Asking for a friend.

The one that's in the hands of the person that does so.
You're welcome.

 

[SteveW86]

So, which driver hits it the furthest, on line and with the most forgiveness? Asking for a friend.

Most of the ones you borrow/try in a shop will do that. It’s only when you own it that they stop doing that.

 

[Waitforme]

From my perspective I’m not convinced there have been much in the way of distance gains in the last 10 / 15 years unless you were playing with the wrong driver setup.

I used to play with a Ping G5 driver but fancied a change. Went for a fitting telling the fitter that I was hoping to gain 20 yards, his comment to me was that I couldn’t, tried 4 or 5 drivers and settled on the Ping K15 for accuracy , fast forward a few years and the shaft snapped in it so I bought a Cobra FLy Z off a fellow forumer, no change in distance.
This year I went for a driver fitting to Paul Laurie golf centre, the fitter couldn’t better my Cobra that I bought untried and suggested that unless I really just wanted a new driver then I’d be better just keeping mine.

If there is distance to be bought then I’m all ears, but in my experience there isn’t.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Most of the ones you borrow/try in a shop will do that. It’s only when you own it that they stop doing that.

That's not exclusive to drivers; putters seem to stop working once paid for as well