Why are most blinded by distance?

[RichA]

Depends where you play your golf as well, doesn't it?
6 of our 11 par 4 holes are over 400 yards and the rough is punitive. In the winter it's 50/50 whether you'll find your ball in it. In the spring and summer it's 25/75 or 0 if the skylarks are nesting there.
If you don't see your tee shot land at ours, you play a prov.
Much better to hit 200 yards onto the fairway and accept that your 3rd shot will be a chip than take your 3rd shot off the tee with 400+ yards still to go.

A more expensive course nearby that I've played a few times they cut the rough between the trees to roughly the same length as our fairways. It massively flatters wayward big hitters who would be losing a couple of sleeves of balls each round on a more challenging course.

 

[hovis]

Last Xmas decided to get back into golf as hadn’t played for a few years. My driver was a Titleist 915 with a Diamana Whiteboard 70g stiff shaft (wasn’t fitted) and I struggled with it. Picked up a regular flex shaft off eBay and that helped a bit but as I got back into it I found ball speed increasing and the ball ballooning as a result.

While at the range the other day, I picked up a TS3 which had a stiff shaft to try. My intention was purely to try the stiff shaft in the 915 to see if it helped and if it did I’d go onto eBay to find a stiff shaft similar to what I tried. It was a marginal improvement over the ref flex with a better flight. But, the TS3 with the stiff shaft was significantly better.

On the left is the 915 with reg shaft and the right TS3 with stiff.

View attachment 40201

I will have a play about with the hosel settings next time I’m there and I’m sure I can squeeze a bit more out of it.

If the TS3 puts me 3 clubs closer to the green that’s a huge difference to me. IF I can get it straighter (lessons needed). AND IF that 8 iron instead of a 5 iron is also straighter (lessons again) I’ve got a better chance of being on the green, where that monster drive is forgotten about after yet another 3 putt (putting practice is top of my list for 2022)

Did you get a shot of your swing speed and smash factor?
As it was on a track man can I assume this was taken Durring a fitting?

 

[Mike79]

Did you get a shot of your swing speed and smash factor?
As it was on a track man can I assume this was taken Durring a fitting?

No, that’s all the data you get from Trackman range unfortunately. Wasn’t a fitting.

 

[theoneandonly]

Depends where you play your golf as well, doesn't it?
6 of our 11 par 4 holes are over 400 yards and the rough is punitive. In the winter it's 50/50 whether you'll find your ball in it. In the spring and summer it's 25/75 or 0 if the skylarks are nesting there.
If you don't see your tee shot land at ours, you play a prov.
Much better to hit 200 yards onto the fairway and accept that your 3rd shot will be a chip than take your 3rd shot off the tee with 400+ yards still to go.

A more expensive course nearby that I've played a few times they cut the rough between the trees to roughly the same length as our fairways. It massively flatters wayward big hitters who would be losing a couple of sleeves of balls each round on a more challenging course.

Surely that flatters all golfers?

 

[RichA]

Surely that flatters all golfers?

It's flattering to the big hitters when compared to their big, slightly wayward drives that would cost them several shots and several balls on a longer course with less forgiveness for going in the rough.
No difference to those who bunt it 200 down the middle of the fairway.

 

[BiMGuy]

I’d love to meet the mythical golfers or clubs that can hit every fairway at 200 yards. It just doesn’t happen.

 

[Banchory Buddha]

It's flattering to the big hitters when compared to their big, slightly wayward drives that would cost them several shots and several balls on a longer course with less forgiveness for going in the rough.
No difference to those who bunt it 200 down the middle of the fairway.

Well not really, course rating will take into account the differences in tightness of respective courses if it's as markedly different as you say?

 

[DanFST]

I’d love to meet the mythical golfers or clubs that can hit every fairway at 200 yards. It just doesn’t happen.

Is anyone suggesting it does?

I'm unsure where the perception of "big hitter needs lots of space". Some people just generate better launch conditions naturally, no big deal!

 

[RichA]

I’d love to meet the mythical golfers or clubs that can hit every fairway at 200 yards. It just doesn’t happen.

Fair comment, but I'm guessing you know what I meant. If the risk of a lost ball at 250+ yards is high and the risk of a lost ball at 200 yards is low, it seems a simple choice to me. But then I'm not in the 250+ class. I lowered my handicap this year by taking a 5 iron off the tee more often than a driver.

 

[RichA]

Well not really, course rating will take into account the differences in tightness of respective courses if it's as markedly different as you say?

I'm only speaking from my limited personal experience of these courses and playing with guys who hit massive drives and lose loads of balls.
I've mostly stopped being goaded into "longest drive" challenges on every tee and have miraculously saved a fortune on golf balls lately.

 

[Banchory Buddha]

I'm only speaking from my limited personal experience of these courses and playing with guys who hit massive drives and lose loads of balls.

But the topic isn't about bad course management? Our biggest hitter and lowest handicapper hits driver twice on our course, he drives the ball 320+, he hits as little as 7 iron off some tees, 7i + SW will see him on a 300yd hole.

 

[Backsticks]

Fair comment, but I'm guessing you know what I meant. If the risk of a lost ball at 250+ yards is high and the risk of a lost ball at 200 yards is low, it seems a simple choice to me. But then I'm not in the 250+ class. I lowered my handicap this year by taking a 5 iron off the tee more often than a driver.

Longer hitters hit more fairways than shorter hitters. The feeling that distance and accuracy are a trade off doesnt really apply overall. It does for the individual - any person trying to hit it further will be more inaccurate. But that does not translate when looking at golfers as a whole. In fact, it is the opposite. The better ball striking of the golfer with a standard 250 yd driver carry also brings him more accuracy than the 200yd hitter. He could choose to hit is 4 iron, and would be even more accurate - but the trade off in distance does not outweight the benefit of the longer shot in general.

 

[RichA]

But the topic isn't about bad course management? Our biggest hitter and lowest handicapper hits driver twice on our course, he drives the ball 320+, he hits as little as 7 iron off some tees, 7i + SW will see him on a 300yd hole.

I think the topic of "Why are most blinded by distance?" is maybe interpreted differently depending on what class of golfer you are and those you play with.
For you guys in low single figures, a 15 yard gain is something you're going to assume is 15 yards up the fairway. You might well be right.
For average bogey golfers like me, it doesn't work that way. A lot of us higher handicap guys, especially those who hadn't picked up a golf club 2 years ago, are sucked into the distance obsession, whether it's club tech or just trying to always hit the ball faster and harder.
So it does end up being about course management and understanding what your limitations are.

 

[BiMGuy]

Fair comment, but I'm guessing you know what I meant. If the risk of a lost ball at 250+ yards is high and the risk of a lost ball at 200 yards is low, it seems a simple choice to me. But then I'm not in the 250+ class. I lowered my handicap this year by taking a 5 iron off the tee more often than a driver.

You need to assess each shot on its own. But for me to give up 50 yards the risk has to be significant.

Where I play there are holes where you would struggle to make it to the fairway with a 5 iron unless you could hit it 200yards. And the rough is just as punishing on most holes at that distance than it is at 250.

Hitting longer clubs for your second shot just introduces more risk.

I don’t know what your HC is or what you usually score, but we’ll done on finding a way to reduce your HC.

For me, where I play. Giving up so much distance off the would only lead to higher scores.
My next goal is to get down to a 5 HI. Ultimately I want to get to scratch. To do that I need to gain distance off the tee and with my irons, to increase my opportunity to hit more greens in regulation. So I will be working on improving my strength and flexibility over the winter, along with trying to improve my ball striking with my irons.

 

[patricks148]

Hypothetically speaking if there were a magic wand to give me another 50 yards off the tee I wouldn't hesitate to use it?

 

[RichA]

You need to assess each shot on its own. But for me to give up 50 yards the risk has to be significant.

Where I play there are holes where you would struggle to make it to the fairway with a 5 iron unless you could hit it 200yards. And the rough is just as punishing on most holes at that distance than it is at 250.

Hitting longer clubs for your second shot just introduces more risk.

I don’t know what your HC is or what you usually score, but we’ll done on finding a way to reduce your HC.

For me, where I play. Giving up so much distance off the would only lead to higher scores.
My next goal is to get down to a 5 HI. Ultimately I want to get to scratch. To do that I need to gain distance off the tee and with my irons, to increase my opportunity to hit more greens in regulation. So I will be working on improving my strength and flexibility over the winter, along with trying to improve my ball striking with my irons.

This is where I feel we interpret the distance gains conversation differently. For you it's necessary for you to achieve your goal.
My goal is to try to stay in the mid-teens by consolidating what I've got rather than chasing something that I'm not realistically capable of.

 

[Foxholer]

Last Xmas decided to get back into golf as hadn’t played for a few years. My driver was a Titleist 915 with a Diamana Whiteboard 70g stiff shaft (wasn’t fitted) and I struggled with it. Picked up a regular flex shaft off eBay and that helped a bit but as I got back into it I found ball speed increasing and the ball ballooning as a result.

While at the range the other day, I picked up a TS3 which had a stiff shaft to try. My intention was purely to try the stiff shaft in the 915 to see if it helped and if it did I’d go onto eBay to find a stiff shaft similar to what I tried. It was a marginal improvement over the ref flex with a better flight. But, the TS3 with the stiff shaft was significantly better.

On the left is the 915 with reg shaft and the right TS3 with stiff.

View attachment 40201

I will have a play about with the hosel settings next time I’m there and I’m sure I can squeeze a bit more out of it.

If the TS3 puts me 3 clubs closer to the green that’s a huge difference to me. IF I can get it straighter (lessons needed). AND IF that 8 iron instead of a 5 iron is also straighter (lessons again) I’ve got a better chance of being on the green, where that monster drive is forgotten about after yet another 3 putt (putting practice is top of my list for 2022)

Looks like you've found a reasonable, or even great, upgrade! As long as you can get on with the sound! Certainly, the Stiff shaft seems likely to be nearer your optimum. Worth going back to the Whiteboard to see how that performs now? Would it work in the TS3? WB's (low launch, low spin) attributes actually 'clash' slightly with TS2/3's design philosophy of high launch, low spin. The shaft in the club you 'auditioned' might have been simply perfect for you!
TS2/3 were apparently a major change of approach for Titleist - much more emphasis on distance than their usual accuracy emphasis.

Of course, every new toy works well until you hand over the cash!

 

[BiMGuy]

This is where I feel we interpret the distance gains conversation differently. For you it's necessary for you to achieve your goal.
My goal is to try to stay in the mid-teens by consolidating what I've got rather than chasing something that I'm not realistically capable of.

In your instance. Could you not make gains by going to a 4 or 5 hybrid off the tee? It will probably be more forgiving and longer than a 5 iron.

Even 10 yards closer to the green makes life easier.

 

[Lump]

Does it really matter? If anyone wants to spend there hard earned why should we care . If he was to moan and complain during every round about being rubbish and new clubs will cure him, them you let them know they are a clown.

 

[Oddsocks]

Where is it clear that the changes are improvements ?

By how much would you estimate affects a handicap. As in, if a 12 handicapper today bagging gear from the last 10 years went back to sticks from 25 years or so, would they go out to 18 or so, or ?

I can answer that. 11.5 HI went out with 1960’s persimmon woods and pinseeker blades from the same era and with a cold putter shot 29pts. If that putter was half as warm on the front as it was on the back I would have easily shot 34+