WHS & ISV Issues (Please post only if you are a handicap secretary or involved in admin at your club)

[wjemather]

The policy over at Club Systems must be changing somewhat. At 1130 yesterday morning (Sunday) I wrote to them requesting a 9 hole mixed comp template. By tea time they had replied, stating that the template is now added. Great stuff.

We got it added a month or so ago - apparently it is an existing template that they inexplicably haven't enabled for everyone. Made me wonder what else they have hidden away...

 

[rulefan]

I can't remember which thread it was in but a question arose re the transition using the PCC twice (ie the CSS adjustment) in County run events.
I can confirm that cannot happen future because the software is quite different but there is no automatic fix.
The only fix is a manual one, "when editing the score you need change the tee played to the correct SSS Value, they all look the same but if you hover over them you can see the values, but changing this to the right SSS=CR value it retains the PCC but removes the double counting".

 

[Old Skier]

Latest Dashboard updated user guide

https://www.englandgolf.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Golf-Club-Platform-Help-V2.0-final.pdf

 

[Old Skier]

Are EG and the ISVs falling out of love ( if they ever were):

World Handicap System Update​

ISV charges

As the roll-out of the new World Handicap System (WHS) continues apace, we would like to make you aware of one aspect of our licence agreement with independent software vendors (ISVs).

When ISVs signed the WHS licence last July to gain access and connect with the new WHS platform, they also agreed to pay England Golf – the single authority for handicapping in England - an annual service charge.

This service charge process also applied during the years when CONGU operated the handicapping system throughout GB&I. Of course, one very important difference is that the ISVs are no longer required to carry out the handicap calculation. This is now done centrally by the England Golf WHS platform, ensuring that, across the country, handicaps are calculated consistently.

The service provided by England Golf is now very different to that provided by CONGU.

On signing the WHS licence, ISVs agreed to pay a charge of £74.50 (plus VAT) every six months for each golf club to which they provide handicapping software.

The ISV service charge covers the full cost of all maintenance and ongoing enhancement of the WHS platform and My England Golf app to effectively support golfers and golf clubs. Also note that The R&A financed all development costs of the WHS platform without any charge being passed to any golf club or club member.

For clarity, it is not an individual charge to golf clubs from England Golf.

That is why it formed part of the licence agreement between England Golf and ISVs.

Furthermore, we have not instructed ISVs to pass on and collect this fee from clubs on our behalf. As with the CONGU service charge, it is a matter for ISVs how they incorporate these expenses into their business model.

However, we are aware that some ISVs have now made the business decision to include this service charge in their invoices to golf clubs and we are disappointed that a licence holder would choose to pass the full burden of their responsibility for payment to golf clubs.

Should any golf club that has been presented with this scenario and has had a genuine financial challenge in meeting the payment for 2020 (£74.50 during an unprecedented pandemic year), then we would ask you to contact us at whs.support@englandgolf.orgto discuss the matter further.


Golfer education and platform guide

As we all look forward to the reopening of courses at the earliest opportunity, we would like to remind clubs of the ongoing importance of golfer education.

Golf club and golfer resources sent out in the course of 2020 continue to be available on the England Golf website, including recently updated information on stroke indices, applying for course ratings, updating course details and the golf club platform user guide version 2.0 - all relevant documents can be found on our WHS club resources page.

We would encourage you to direct your members to these educational tools in advance of golf returning post-lockdown.

Please also look out for new features being added soon to the ‘My England Golf’ app which will enhance the experience of playing golf under the WHS system for all players.​

 

[nickjdavis]

I wonder how much the "old" CONGU service charge was?

I'm actually surprised that the ISV's pay anything now given that their role now has nothing to do with handicaps and has been reduced to being little more than "competition management" platforms.

I find it strange that the ISV's are asked to pay anything for the ongoing maintenance of a system and an app that they seemingly have no responsibility for.

 

[rulefan]

I wonder how much the "old" CONGU service charge was?

I'm actually surprised that the ISV's pay anything now given that their role now has nothing to do with handicaps and has been reduced to being little more than "competition management" platforms.

I find it strange that the ISV's are asked to pay anything for the ongoing maintenance of a system and an app that they seemingly have no responsibility for.

Their 'competition management' platform would be pretty useless without access to the WHS handicap data.

 

[jim8flog]

I wonder how much the "old" CONGU service charge was?

I'm actually surprised that the ISV's pay anything now given that their role now has nothing to do with handicaps and has been reduced to being little more than "competition management" platforms.

I find it strange that the ISV's are asked to pay anything for the ongoing maintenance of a system and an app that they seemingly have no responsibility for.

I still get to see all my handicap info on the IG platform without the need to go to the EG website.

£74.50 + VAT spread over most membership numbers is such a small amount it is hardly worth worrying about (about 12p where I play).

 

[nickjdavis]

Their 'competition management' platform would be pretty useless without access to the WHS handicap data.

That's fair enough....though its not the ISV's fault that half their product has been taken away from them...and now they're being asked to pay for the privilege of accessing the data that they were once able to create for themselves......so I go back to the original question....how does the £74.50 compare to the old fee they paid Congu?

Out of interest...did EG ever ask for a contribution from ISV's to support the CDH?

 

[rosecott]

That's fair enough....though its not the ISV's fault that half their product has been taken away from them...and now they're being asked to pay for the privilege of accessing the data that they were once able to create for themselves......so I go back to the original question....how does the £74.50 compare to the old fee they paid Congu?

Out of interest...did EG ever ask for a contribution from ISV's to support the CDH?

Handicapmaster's annual invoices always stated that the annual maintenance fee included a royalty payment to CONGU without specifying the amount.

 

[rulefan]

That's fair enough....though its not the ISV's fault that half their product has been taken away from them...and now they're being asked to pay for the privilege of accessing the data that they were once able to create for themselves......so I go back to the original question....how does the £74.50 compare to the old fee they paid Congu?

Out of interest...did EG ever ask for a contribution from ISV's to support the CDH?

They could have come out of it much worse. EG could have written their own front end as other countries have done.

 

[nickjdavis]

They could have come out of it much worse. EG could have written their own front end as other countries have done.

Yeah and given what's happened over the last year or so with the WHS implementation we can all imagine how that might have ended up.

 

[IanMcC]

We have ClubV1 as our software package. I dont have full admin access. Annoyingly, our secretary, when she gets a new member, insists she has to put something into the Handicap Index field, so she puts in 28.0. Im sure this can be bypassed. Its really frustrating telling people that they cannot play off of that handicap index until they put 3 cards in, and then it will alter. Can someone talk me through the process, please, if it is possible?

 

[Old Skier]

We have ClubV1 as our software package. I dont have full admin access. Annoyingly, our secretary, when she gets a new member, insists she has to put something into the Handicap Index field, so she puts in 28.0. Im sure this can be bypassed. Its really frustrating telling people that they cannot play off of that handicap index until they put 3 cards in, and then it will alter. Can someone talk me through the process, please, if it is possible?

There is no need to add a handicap when initially entering a new member if they do not hold a handicap or CDH No.

 

[IanMcC]

There is no need to add a handicap when initially entering a new member if they do not hold a handicap or CDH No.

Thanks for that. I thought that was the case, but she is insistent that she cant progress without putting something in that field. (This is a secretary who didn't know how to take a screenshot before I showed her, though.)

 

[2blue]

Thanks for that. I thought that was the case, but she is insistent that she cant progress without putting something in that field. (This is a secretary who didn't know how to take a screenshot before I showed her, though.)

It's very simple...... Member with no H/cap!!

 

[IanMcC]

That's brilliant. I will snip this and send it to her. Should be obvious then. Many thanks.

 

[Old Skier]

That's brilliant. I will snip this and send it to her. Should be obvious then. Many thanks.

Seems like she would benefit looking at the Club Systems YouTube site for some tutorials.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Are EG and the ISVs falling out of love ( if they ever were):

​

World Handicap System Update

​

ISV charges

As the roll-out of the new World Handicap System (WHS) continues apace, we would like to make you aware of one aspect of our licence agreement with independent software vendors (ISVs).

When ISVs signed the WHS licence last July to gain access and connect with the new WHS platform, they also agreed to pay England Golf – the single authority for handicapping in England - an annual service charge.

This service charge process also applied during the years when CONGU operated the handicapping system throughout GB&I. Of course, one very important difference is that the ISVs are no longer required to carry out the handicap calculation. This is now done centrally by the England Golf WHS platform, ensuring that, across the country, handicaps are calculated consistently.

The service provided by England Golf is now very different to that provided by CONGU.

On signing the WHS licence, ISVs agreed to pay a charge of £74.50 (plus VAT) every six months for each golf club to which they provide handicapping software.

The ISV service charge covers the full cost of all maintenance and ongoing enhancement of the WHS platform and My England Golf app to effectively support golfers and golf clubs. Also note that The R&A financed all development costs of the WHS platform without any charge being passed to any golf club or club member.

For clarity, it is not an individual charge to golf clubs from England Golf.

That is why it formed part of the licence agreement between England Golf and ISVs.

Furthermore, we have not instructed ISVs to pass on and collect this fee from clubs on our behalf. As with the CONGU service charge, it is a matter for ISVs how they incorporate these expenses into their business model.

However, we are aware that some ISVs have now made the business decision to include this service charge in their invoices to golf clubs and we are disappointed that a licence holder would choose to pass the full burden of their responsibility for payment to golf clubs.

Should any golf club that has been presented with this scenario and has had a genuine financial challenge in meeting the payment for 2020 (£74.50 during an unprecedented pandemic year), then we would ask you to contact us at whs.support@englandgolf.orgto discuss the matter further.


Golfer education and platform guide

As we all look forward to the reopening of courses at the earliest opportunity, we would like to remind clubs of the ongoing importance of golfer education.

Golf club and golfer resources sent out in the course of 2020 continue to be available on the England Golf website, including recently updated information on stroke indices, applying for course ratings, updating course details and the golf club platform user guide version 2.0 - all relevant documents can be found on our WHS club resources page.

We would encourage you to direct your members to these educational tools in advance of golf returning post-lockdown.

Please also look out for new features being added soon to the ‘My England Golf’ app which will enhance the experience of playing golf under the WHS system for all players.

I saw this and had 2 initial reactions:

First, with golf shutdown and clubs really struggling is this the most important thing England Golf is focussed on? If so they need to look at themselves long and hard in the mirror!

Second, in business when you see this kind of a*** covering memo you realise they are trying to ensure any blame for these costs are placed firmly on the ISVs. Do they really expect a business that has had to rewrite their software to incur additional costs without passing them onto the end user? I suspect the relationship between EG and the ISV is not very good and notes like this aren't going to help.

I must admit my impression of EG over the whole WHS saga has been that they have not done a good job. Indeed without the lockdowns being in place I fear the whole implementation might have failed. Notes like this don't make me feel they are in charge of matters.

 

[Old Skier]

I saw this and had 2 initial reactions:

First, with golf shutdown and clubs really struggling is this the most important thing England Golf is focussed on? If so they need to look at themselves long and hard in the mirror!

Second, in business when you see this kind of a*** covering memo you realise they are trying to ensure any blame for these costs are placed firmly on the ISVs. Do they really expect a business that has had to rewrite their software to incur additional costs without passing them onto the end user? I suspect the relationship between EG and the ISV is not very good and notes like this aren't going to help.

I must admit my impression of EG over the whole WHS saga has been that they have not done a good job. Indeed without the lockdowns being in place I fear the whole implementation might have failed. Notes like this don't make me feel they are in charge of matters.

Local and regional EG reps are at times, quite helpful but the service received from HQ isn’t the best. Over the last 3 years all I have heard from the people who have been down for briefings is what nice courses they got to play while ”sorting” the WHS. I always wonder how much they pay to play at Woodhall.

Financially with some of their schemes they don’t even operate from a level playing fields, we have never received any grants from them as “we don’t have a resident pro” argument is always used although the person who helps with our juniors and team members is an ex pro.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

I was aware of this issue after transition as several of our players had "tournament" entries. When I suggested I could change them to the correct county venues i was told not to as it would be unfair to the rest of the field who would not have their record updated. Things appear to have changed!

I think all county and third party events - such as the UKSGA - will have this problem. A lot use IG as their management software but I don't think the issue is with the ISV.

United Kingdom Senior Golf Association.
/uploads/uksga/File/WHS ERROR in Tournament Calculations.pdf
Dear All,
As a result of some excellent work by Ian Attoe a discrepancy in the calculations of away scores at "Tournaments" has been identified. Please click on the link above to read the full correspondence and if you feel your handicap has changed as a result of this then please contact EG directly.
If you wish to check on any of the UKSGA events you played in then the CSS and all relevant information is available on the results page of our website.
It is important to emphasise that it was a conversion error and not a fault in the WHS algorithm.
The President contacted EG and had a reply and a corrected WHS index back within 48hrs and now plays of 16 sorry 1.6
Please send your correspondence to Gemma Hunter at ; whs.support@englandgolf.org
We look forward to the season starting soon and will be in touch as soon as we have any positive news.