WHS Handicap Index - Finally Revealed

[pmgolfer99]

I'm scared to go near it, as I have no idea how broke it is, or how finished it is. Could spend hours on it, then suddenly it all changes again?

Simply giving new golfers an Index equal to Congu handicap is worrying, given virtually all golfers who have submitted lots of scores have a handicap index lower than Congu. It means we have ridiculous situations where an experienced golfer with Congu of 28.6 gets a course handicap of 29 off yellows, whereas a new golfer with Congu 28 gets a course handicap of 32. These will stick out like sore thumbs in our winter league. I could try and change them, but someone says these are only indicative and may well change.

In a different thread, I asked whether there were any max scores for holes for the initial cards and apparently it is +5 per hole (and not double par as per Congu rules). Therefore, if you take the three intial cards, it is quite likely that you will get a handicap higher than the one calculated for Congu, e.g. for a 28 handicap if they get a few 10s on par 4s they will only be cut down to 9 under WHS, but would have been cut down to 8 under Congu. Same applies if someone gets e.g. an 8 on a par three.

I wonder if using the 3 cards and calculating a new WHS handicap, you could get a higher index than the Congu handicap, so this is what it has been capped at?

 

[nickjdavis]

The system needs a facility where you can log on to your ISV software, select a player and push all his historical scoring to the WHS platform, including all his initial cards that he originally submitted for handicap. Why they never took account of the initial cards I just do not know. Maybe it is fixable....but I doubt it.

Likewise we are now treating the WHS like a sleeping snake, unwilling to poke it lest we get bitten.

However, with the general golfing populace allegedly being let loose on the system next week I find it worrying that the next "update" of score data will be done on November 1st. We will just be firefighting questions for two weeks.

 

[Swango1980]

The system needs a facility where you can log on to your ISV software, select a player and push all his historical scoring to the WHS platform, including all his initial cards that he originally submitted for handicap. Why they never took account of the initial cards I just do not know. Maybe it is fixable....but I doubt it.

Likewise we are now treating the WHS like a sleeping snake, unwilling to poke it lest we get bitten.

However, with the general golfing populace allegedly being let loose on the system next week I find it worrying that the next "update" of score data will be done on November 1st. We will just be firefighting questions for two weeks.

Indeed. And, if we can't go near it until it gets updated on November 1st, we'll be working like mad from November 2nd to fix any dodgy handicaps before players use them in competition.

I have already had 1 guy on Committee who happened to know a few of these initial index values, and was carefully figuring out how everyones handicap will change in Winter League in his group come November. And, he doesn't have access to WHS Platform, it was just based on me giving some initial index values. So, I dread to think what happens Monday when and member can sit in front of computer and look through it at their will. A few questions will be raised.

I still have players registering for supplementary scores, so I'll continue entering them in Club V1, and hopefully their 1st November update will at least capture them

 

[PJ87]

My handicap sec was explaining we will get an app were we can register any card from any course providing you say before hand and play to the rules of golf

That does sound good

 

[mikejohnchapman]

So, that means we do not need to add in the missing scores from the last week?

What about missing scores from golfers who recently handed 3 cards in for handicap?

I think you are correct.

We have had a note from ClubSystems to say they have not sent any information to the EG Platform yet but would do so on the 1st November as part of the migration. This will include all scores apparently (fingers crossed).

Looks like we are going to be busy for a few days in early November - just as well there aren't going to be any firework displays!

If there is a problem with the migration or we can't review the handicaps in time for the club comps we are going to use the old handicaps for the competitions only and then process the score for handicap when we are happy with the data. Not ideal but fairer I believe.

 

[rulefan]

Are we on the same hymn sheet, I assume we are talking about whether CSS has been taken into account in the initial Index calculations? My screenshot shows it has not.

The Gross was 88, gross adjusted was 88, CSS 71, SSS 69 (as I have said)

I'd have thought, had the WHS taken into account CSS, it would have set PCC to +2. It hasn't, it is simply using the CR of 69.4.

But what HI did you use to determine the CH when you did your calculation?

 

[Mozza14]

But what HI did you use to determine the CH when you did your calculation?

Unless I have completely lost the plot, the CH (Course Handicap) has absolutely no bearing on establishing a player's Handicap Index. That is during the transition or when the system goes live.

 

[rulefan]

Unless I have completely lost the plot, the CH (Course Handicap) has absolutely no bearing on establishing a player's Handicap Index. That is during the transition or when the system goes live.

Yes. Belay that

 

[Mozza14]

Yes. Belay that

I don't know what that means sorry.

Perhaps help me/us by explaining how the Course Handicap fits into SWANGO's explanation that CSS has not featured in the WHS output so far.

 

[nickjdavis]

I think you are correct.

We have had a note from ClubSystems to say they have not sent any information to the EG Platform yet but would do so on the 1st November as part of the migration. This will include all scores apparently (fingers crossed).

Looks like we are going to be busy for a few days in early November - just as well there aren't going to be any firework displays!

If there is a problem with the migration or we can't review the handicaps in time for the club comps we are going to use the old handicaps for the competitions only and then process the score for handicap when we are happy with the data. Not ideal but fairer I believe.

We have written to HandicapMaster so see if they will confirm that scores for initial handicap will be pushed to the WHS or just the recent scores in October.

Luckily we postponed all Comps that were due to be played in the first week of November anticipating such a clusterf..k.

 

[rulefan]

I don't know what that means sorry.

Hold it, go no further.

 

[Mozza14]

Hold it, go no further.

Could you answer the second part then please?

Perhaps help me/us by explaining how the Course Handicap fits into SWANGO's explanation that CSS has not featured in the WHS output so far.

 

[rulefan]

Could you answer the second part then please?

Perhaps help me/us by explaining how the Course Handicap fits into SWANGO's explanation that CSS has not featured in the WHS output so far.

It doesn't. I was misleading my self which is why I said 'take it no further'

 

[Golfnut1957]

While my home club will publish WHS handicaps on the 2nd Nov it has been decided that the two winter comps, a league and a knockout which are both matchplay, will be played in their entirety using our "old" current handicaps. Other than friendly golf and supplementary cards we won't start using the WHS until spring.

 

[Swango1980]

While my home club will publish WHS handicaps on the 2nd Nov it has been decided that the two winter comps, a league and a knockout which are both matchplay, will be played in their entirety using our "old" current handicaps. Other than friendly golf and supplementary cards we won't start using the WHS until spring.

No "qualifying" comps over winter then?

Probably not a bad decision in this case. For a start, no idea when the ISV software will be properly up and running to deal with WHS handicaps. I'm hoping they are ready to make the switch immediately on 2nd November. Also, I suspect it will take clubs a bit of time to go through the system and sort out any odd handicap index values, especially for new members who have only just got their handicap pre 2nd November. So, not using WHS until Committee are happy that handicaps are relatively fair is a reasonable stance

 

[rulefan]

We are going to 'give it a go' and run our Winter Order of Merit under WHS just to get to grips with it.

 

[Old Skier]

Hold fire Nick. Despite WHS replying yesterday saying that either the ISV guys need to sort this, or club committees need to manually put these scores in, I have just checked today and the new golfers whose handicap was shown as Pending, now have a handicap.

My only concern now is, one of the ladies got her first handicap of 45 a few weeks ago. She played in a competition last week, her 1st round with a handicap, and got a chop to 40.9. She also handed in a supplementary card yesterday, no change to handicap. However, her WHS Index is 45.0 (giving her a course handicap of 56.

So, I'm a bit concerned that WHS is omitting a load of rounds played in the last month or so for some players??? Also, if it is simply giving new members a Handicap Index that matches their CONGU handicap, then they will suddenly get more shots as a course handicap, especially high handicappers (given that in most cases, everyone's handicap index is lower than their current CONGU handicap

I had an email from EG yesterday but couldn't update the forum put they did suffer a software glitch that resulted in a lot of this pending issues and missing members, I'm slowly going through ours but I can see no pending issues now and members who were missing are appearing.

Id appreciate it if the those who have spotted where players have had three cards for handicap not being included could update the thread if this has also been resolved before I waste another day of my life as Im supposed to be taking HID to Cornwall for a few days.

 

[Old Skier]

Indeed. And, if we can't go near it until it gets updated on November 1st, we'll be working like mad from November 2nd to fix any dodgy handicaps before players use them in competition.

I have already had 1 guy on Committee who happened to know a few of these initial index values, and was carefully figuring out how everyones handicap will change in Winter League in his group come November. And, he doesn't have access to WHS Platform, it was just based on me giving some initial index values. So, I dread to think what happens Monday when and member can sit in front of computer and look through it at their will. A few questions will be raised.

I still have players registering for supplementary scores, so I'll continue entering them in Club V1, and hopefully their 1st November update will at least capture them

I'm now going to leave it all well alone, wait for the member to see what they have then send out an all stations email informing them to wait until 2 Nov before they start querying anything (more in hope).

I'm also waiting from a response from the head honchos at EG at our county and EG rep suggested at our AGM that issues and thoughts on how this was handled should be passed directly to HQ. I think they feel the same pain

 

[Swango1980]

I had an email from EG yesterday but couldn't update the forum put they did suffer a software glitch that resulted in a lot of this pending issues and missing members, I'm slowly going through ours but I can see no pending issues now and members who were missing are appearing.

Id appreciate it if the those who have spotted where players have had three cards for handicap not being included could update the thread if this has also been resolved before I waste another day of my life as Im supposed to be taking HID to Cornwall for a few days.

For players who have handed their 3 cards in for initial handicap, but no cards thereafter, their Handicap Index has been set simply to their CONGU Handicap (in most cases this will be too high, as most golfers have an index lower than their CONGU handicap, and then their Course handicap is similar to CONGU). So, ideally, WHS could bring those 3 scores in, and work out their initial Index properly. However, not sure if that is possible, because on Club V1 I cannot even view those 3 scores, it simply gives the date the rounds were played. So, perhaps there is no way of transferring them to WHS. In which case, it may be up to handicap secs to manually enter them, unless WHS come up with a different way of setting the 1st index other than equalling CONGU handicap.

However, yesterday, the above was also true if these new members had since played up to 2 rounds from their new handicap. Because, the system only saw 2 rounds, and therefore just matched their CONGU handicap. However, I notice today this has changed, with one member who had an initial handicap of 30, and put in one supplementary score late last month to get it to 28. Yesterday, his index was 28.0 (i.e. his CONGU handicap, as he only had 1 recognised score). Today his Index 20.8. So, the platform has now taken that 1 score into account, where his scoring history says he had an Index of 28.0 for first round, and after that round it went to 20.8.

I am not going to touch anything until I know there are no longer changes behind the scenes

 

[Old Skier]

Our Admin just informed me that Club Systems final upload will be 1 Nov to hopefully catch those comps and cards entered this month so she is sending out to all members that this is happening and their index is subject to change.

Played golf with the Capt of Sidmouth yesterday and there course is rated at 114, I really think that the course ratter's who actually come form the county used more than just a guide book to come up with their decisions.