WHS Handicap Index - Finally Revealed

[Old Skier]

No, looked at the chart today, I will play off +2 ?

I appreciate some people will think that's great, but personally it's just plain daft. I'm nowhere near that, never have been never will be, and frankly as a realist it's embarrassing.

Basically will be paying to enter comps with absolutely zero chance of competing until this mess sorts itself.

Interesting, what’s your course slope

 

[nickjdavis]

0.3
I appreciate that the conversion only looks at numbers, but it's ridiculous..
1 is fair, 2 is great, 0 is a challenge but fun.
+2 is rubbish. After playing fairly all these years, suddenly I'm now excluded from competing. Absolute garbage

Have you seen the underlying scored that the WHS has used to get to the 2 index?

 

[94tegsi]

No, looked at the chart today, I will play off +2 ?

I appreciate some people will think that's great, but personally it's just plain daft. I'm nowhere near that, never have been never will be, and frankly as a realist it's embarrassing.

Basically will be paying to enter comps with absolutely zero chance of competing until this mess sorts itself.

+2 Handicap index or course index? Doesn’t sound too ridiculous if all of your counting scores are par or better?

 

[94tegsi]

You sure that’s the right way round on a course with 128 slope mate? What’s the WHS course rating?

guess we all have pre conceived ideas on the skill of a certain handicap based on what we’ve been used to and that internal barometer is going to have to change.

 

[nickjdavis]

Sorry I don't really understand the question? ?

I was wondering if you have actually seen the list of scores that the WHS has used to calculate your index that you say will mean you playing off +2?

(or have you calculated this based on your CONGU scores?)

For you to have been given an index of that nature you must have a well established very good scoring record (in which case the index is probably justified ) or you have only a very small number of scores that have been "victimised" by one of the calculations that uses the best minus one or 2 strokes.

 

[harpo_72]

Yes and yes, CR is 71.5 versus par 71, CSS has been 72 all the way.
I'm a bit conscious of not hijacking the thread so I think I should leave it there ?

Here is a proper thread jack ... is that a Swedish tram?

 

[Ethan]

Index +1.4, Course Hcp +2.

I do understand that people will look at the scores and say "well that's what you should be off". Yes I get that.

But I've been playing 40 years, I'm 52, I'm not and never have been a plus handicap. I don't want a stupid vanity handicap. This year I've scored everything between 69 and 81, but the new system just takes my best 6 scores.

I've played with a few forum members and I'm guessing they would say that, yeah I can play OK to Cat 1, but no way am I a plus 2, and absolutely I agree.

Obviously in real life I just go out and play, no massive deal, but for forum chat I think it's ludicrous.

Part of that is the way that multipliers work on handicaps. For those of use whose handicaps deduct shots rather than add them, assuming slope is > 113, the course handicap will always be higher, that is to the right of the handicap index on a number line. But for plus people, the course handicap is lower, that is to the left on a number line because they both appear just to multiply without taking the +/- into account. This makes no mathematical sense. It clearly happens because the system is zeroed on scratch, but it means that the difference between a +0.4 player and a 0.4 player becomes 2 under WHS since they will go to playing handicaps of +1 and 1 respectively, when under current arrangements it is 0, as both play off scratch.

 

[jim8flog]

What I am going to find interesting is that I am registered with EG with one email address and I have another for the golf club.

 

[Swango1980]

I just so happened to check the Index for one member at our club. When I looked at his scoring history, he had a total of 18 scores, the first being early 2019. However, the WHS Portal had completely ignored any qualifiers he played in 2018, of which he played 8 (having checked Club V1). Having randomly checked a few other members, 2018 scores seem to be included as expected.

Slightly worrying that, randomly, this one particular member just has a whole years worth of scores that have not come through into WHS. I have no idea how many others this may effect. I'm guessing, rather than go through every member individually, I may need to ask golfers, when they get access, to highlight to me if they think any of their scores are missing. I might then be able to at least take a not of those missing scores from Club V1 before 2nd November, and then manually add them if they haven't returned during the review thereafter.

 

[jim8flog]

One of the things I have done is to print out my handicap record just in case it disappears come 2/11.

One of the things that has changed during 2020 is the name of our courses

We have gone
Old Short
Old Short 2020
Old
O/C Covid 19 Temp Course
Old 2020

Interesting to see if it makes any difference.

 

[nickjdavis]

I just so happened to check the Index for one member at our club. When I looked at his scoring history, he had a total of 18 scores, the first being early 2019. However, the WHS Portal had completely ignored any qualifiers he played in 2018, of which he played 8 (having checked Club V1). Having randomly checked a few other members, 2018 scores seem to be included as expected.

Slightly worrying that, randomly, this one particular member just has a whole years worth of scores that have not come through into WHS. I have no idea how many others this may effect. I'm guessing, rather than go through every member individually, I may need to ask golfers, when they get access, to highlight to me if they think any of their scores are missing. I might then be able to at least take a not of those missing scores from Club V1 before 2nd November, and then manually add them if they haven't returned during the review thereafter.

Be aware though that of a problem I have found when trying to enter the original three cards for handicap for players who have recently joined the club in the last six months....when their handicap was "pending" in the WHS the system would accept the historical gross scores they were scored, even if there were 10's, 11's ,12's on the cards...they would go through no problem. The moment (Thursday) the WHS changed everyone's handicap indexes from "pending" to "the equivalent to their current congu handicap", when trying to enter historical scores the system rejected any score for a hole where the player scored worse than nett double bogey according to their current "now non-pending" WHS index....it forced you to enter a score equivalent to nett double bogey for their current handicap before allowing you to submit it.

 

[Swango1980]

Be aware though that of a problem I have found when trying to enter the original three cards for handicap for players who have recently joined the club in the last six months....when their handicap was "pending" in the WHS the system would accept the historical gross scores they were scored, even if there were 10's, 11's ,12's on the cards...they would go through no problem. The moment (Thursday) the WHS changed everyone's handicap indexes from "pending" to "the equivalent to their current congu handicap", when trying to enter historical scores the system rejected any score for a hole where the player scored worse than nett double bogey according to their current "now non-pending" WHS index....it forced you to enter a score equivalent to nett double bogey for their current handicap before allowing you to submit it.

Have you informed WHS? They are good at getting back, they replied to me 3 times last week when I reported issues.

Once it goes live, could you enter the 3 scores on your ISV as supplementary scores, and then they will get sent to WHS that way in the correct format?

 

[nickjdavis]

Have you informed WHS? They are good at getting back, they replied to me 3 times last week when I reported issues.

Once it goes live, could you enter the 3 scores on your ISV as supplementary scores, and then they will get sent to WHS that way in the correct format?

Yes I have...late on Friday evening when I finally figured out what was going on for certain!! Entering them as retrospective supplementaries might be an option. Will wait for feedback from the WHS....ideally, when they do their final DB update on 1st November they will have figured out how to extract the initial cards for handicap as well as all of the "normal" scores from the CDH system.

Out of interest....what contact email address did you use? I cant find any "contact" details on the WHS portal itself by which you can report issues!!!

 

[fragar7]

We received the under mentioned yesterday which seems a bit late in the day and thought they probably had this info. as I thought I was registered with EG.

Any comments would be appreciated.


“As a valued member of this golf club, your privacy is important to us, and we want to ensure that your data is used only in the ways you authorise. As a club we are affiliated to England Golf and they have requested the following data to be sent to them, from our records, together with scores, in order for them to process a WHS handicap index. Please choose below whether you are happy to send this data.

Date of Birth
Email Address
Gender”

My club opted all members in to ensure that every player received a Handicap Index. This is the standard email sent to all our members, the only thing is if you opt out you won't get a Handicap Index allegedly

 

[Bdill93]

My club opted all members in to ensure that every player received a Handicap Index. This is the standard email sent to all our members, the only thing is if you opt out you won't get a Handicap Index allegedly

Our club sent the same email!

 

[Old Skier]

Yes I have...late on Friday evening when I finally figured out what was going on for certain!! Entering them as retrospective supplementaries might be an option. Will wait for feedback from the WHS....ideally, when they do their final DB update on 1st November they will have figured out how to extract the initial cards for handicap as well as all of the "normal" scores from the CDH system.

Out of interest....what contact email address did you use? I cant find any "contact" details on the WHS portal itself by which you can report issues!!!

info@englandgolf.org

 

[Swango1980]

Anybody got any feedback yet whether all members have yet received access to WHS Platform yet?

I gave members a heads up e-mail last night (to try and ward off a flurry of questions when they suddenly get access without any warning, and then have a field day trying to interrogate it), and warned them handicaps will simply be indicative at this stage, due to a few issues that are yet to be accounted for. However, I have no idea how this access will be given to them, or when.

 

[nickjdavis]

Anybody got any feedback yet whether all members have yet received access to WHS Platform yet?

I gave members a heads up e-mail last night (to try and ward off a flurry of questions when they suddenly get access without any warning, and then have a field day trying to interrogate it), and warned them handicaps will simply be indicative at this stage, due to a few issues that are yet to be accounted for. However, I have no idea how this access will be given to them, or when.

Absolutely nothing.

 

[patricks148]

Scottish Golf are in silent running on this not a peep out of them

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Anybody got any feedback yet whether all members have yet received access to WHS Platform yet?

I gave members a heads up e-mail last night (to try and ward off a flurry of questions when they suddenly get access without any warning, and then have a field day trying to interrogate it), and warned them handicaps will simply be indicative at this stage, due to a few issues that are yet to be accounted for. However, I have no idea how this access will be given to them, or when.

How can they send anything - they haven't got the data to calculate the HI or the email addresses on their platform to send a note.

Put aside the questions raised on the basis for the calculations.