WHS Handicap Index - Finally Revealed

[Swango1980]

How can they send anything - they haven't got the data to calculate the HI or the email addresses on their platform to send a note.

Put aside the questions raised on the basis for the calculations.

What do you mean. I have handicap index values for every member at my club, and England Golf asked us to ensure every member had an e-mail address within the club ISV, exactly so they had this info. It meant the owner had to get his staff to start chasing members and filling in the info where missing.

So, I'm unsure what you mean by "they haven't got the data to calculate the HI or the email addresses"

 

[Old Skier]

Anybody got any feedback yet whether all members have yet received access to WHS Platform yet?

I gave members a heads up e-mail last night (to try and ward off a flurry of questions when they suddenly get access without any warning, and then have a field day trying to interrogate it), and warned them handicaps will simply be indicative at this stage, due to a few issues that are yet to be accounted for. However, I have no idea how this access will be given to them, or when.

Waiting for my Whatsapp group to respond

 

[Old Skier]

How can they send anything - they haven't got the data to calculate the HI or the email addresses on their platform to send a note.

Put aside the questions raised on the basis for the calculations.

Mike admin should have had an accept email through V1 which would, I believe, realised the relevant info.

 

[Pathetic Shark]

I just found out I will be a 4 handicap for the first time in my life. That will teach me to have some good rounds and be consistent in competitions.

 

[rulefan]

info@englandgolf.org

Or
handicaps@englandgolf.org

 

[Swango1980]

Although it has not been done yet, I've had a response to say CSS will be accounted for, the IT team are working on it. They plan for the values to be included in the adjusted gross score.

 

[Old Skier]

Although it has not been done yet, I've had a response to say CSS will be accounted for, the IT team are working on it. They plan for the values to be included in the adjusted gross score.

One big cluster muck, some people involved in these need a serious look at whether they are up to the job.

 

[rulefan]

Although it has not been done yet, I've had a response to say CSS will be accounted for, the IT team are working on it. They plan for the values to be included in the adjusted gross score.

I suspect that a contributor to the problem is that the software company's programmer (DotCom from New Zealand) was not that familiar with the concept of the CSS in CONGU. When the spec said take the 'course rating' they didn't realise that the CSS was effectively just that. They would have thought the gross score would have included the equivalent of the PCC. The person who wrote the spec was obviously not a professional either.

 

[upsidedown]

I'm hoping the system they roll out will be close to the NZ one as 13 years ago it was miles ahead of what CONGU/HDID produce now !!

https://www.golf.co.nz/MyGolf/default.aspx?memberid=379092&code=2092254892

 

[Old Skier]

Just received the following answer to email

Attention Club Managers, Secretaries and Handicap Reps

Following the WHS platform launch to clubs I wanted to make the following points for clarification based on some recent queries from Devon golf clubs.

1. Data currently shown in the new WHS platform has been drawn in from the current CDH system. This still needs to be cleansed and this will be achieved when uploads are received of member's data via the ISV’s and clubs direct.
2. Handicap indexes are calculated from player records up until 5th October. Please note that they do not take account of - CSS variations from SSS, General Play adjustments or Exceptional Scoring reductions.
3. No scores achieved after 5th October are currently recorded within a players record shown on this platform, however, this information will be transferred on the 1st November. Therefore this data is merely a guide and accuracy will be achieved when the platform becomes live on 2nd November at 12 noon.
4. The CDH closes at 8 p.m. on 1st November. Please continue to administer scores and close competitions up until then, through the usual channels and ISV competition software. Do not use the WHS platform for any score administration until after 2nd November.
5. You may update individual records through ISV or direct with WHS platform with regards emails and DOB. My recommendation would be to update the ISV player records and allow ISV’s to upload direct to WHS platform.
6. Please do not review player handicap records until after the launch of the WHS system on 2nd November. If it is felt a review is required by the handicap committee after this date please follow the usual club review process.

 

[nickjdavis]

Just received the following answer to email

Attention Club Managers, Secretaries and Handicap Reps

Following the WHS platform launch to clubs I wanted to make the following points for clarification based on some recent queries from Devon golf clubs.

Please do not review player handicap records until after the launch of the WHS system on 2nd November. If it is felt a review is required by the handicap committee after this date please follow the usual club review process.

...and if a club has a competition on the 3rd or 4th??....poor handicap secretarys gonna be buried under a raft of "why is my handicap XY or Z" with absolutely no chance to do anything about it.

Should have gone live with the CDH data as of end of September and then allowed new scores to be added during a period of parallel working so golfers could see how the system operated. Madness.

 

[rulefan]

We don't tend to do "specs", as such, these days. Agile, don't you know?

Many years ago my team installed a new warehousing system. It gave a forklift truck driver a picking list (and delivery note) which identified unique items by their serial number and location code.
One night I was called in by the shift manager. A lorry was waiting to make a delivery early that am. The analyst had failed to tell the programmer how to deal with a situation where an item could not be found in that location (or anywhere else).
The analyst was given a week in the warehouse checking the physical with the paper inventory.

 

[Swango1980]

I posted this on another thread, but thought it would be relevant here:

I have just identified another weird error in the Portal.

We have 2 brothers at our club, same surname, Pete and Phil. Pete plays off 12.6, Phil 6.7 (although they have not submitted cards in a very long time).

However, WHS has given Pete an Index of 6.7 and Phil an Index of 12.6. Basically, it has mixed up their CDH numbers. I have double and triple checked Club V1, which is correct. And double and triple checked the WHS (as I can't quite understand how the mix up could have happened)

So, poor Pete is going to find it much much harder to beat his brother after 2nd November

 

[Imurg]

Please, please....

 

[Mozza14]

I suspect that a contributor to the problem is that the software company's programmer (DotCom from New Zealand) was not that familiar with the concept of the CSS in CONGU. When the spec said take the 'course rating' they didn't realise that the CSS was effectively just that. They would have thought the gross score would have included the equivalent of the PCC. The person who wrote the spec was obviously not a professional either.

Apologies once again but I don't understand this ? At our course the White Tee Course Rating is 71.6. (SSS is 72 versus a Par of 70.) The adjustments to CSS can vary up or down but typically are +1 taking the CSS to 73.

This is further away from the Course Rating and therefore CSS could not be seen as a good substitute for Course Rating.

If you have been informed that is the excuse for not adjusting for CSS - SSS, which should have been done, then it doesn't wash with me.

 

[Wildboy370]

I think for once those that have seen this data are all in agreement it is an utter shamble. England golf have come out of this process with egg all over them not just face. How can they have two years to sort, rest of world been doing this for 10 months and we still can’t get it rights. As someone already said they should hold there head in shame. We have one member who has 9 cards on the database, with a handicap of 14. They have used three cards all of yellows in non comp which he used to get his handicap to give him a HI of 8. But the other six cards disregarded he never get below after adjustment of a gross 90. All seems very unfair and chaotic.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

What do you mean. I have handicap index values for every member at my club, and England Golf asked us to ensure every member had an e-mail address within the club ISV, exactly so they had this info. It meant the owner had to get his staff to start chasing members and filling in the info where missing.

So, I'm unsure what you mean by "they haven't got the data to calculate the HI or the email addresses"

I believe that all the data entered into our ISV application hasn't been sent yet to England Golf. Therefore many of the records in the EG Platform are incomplete and do not have an email address yet. Hence my comment about not being able to send the emails.

The score records also stopped in early October and it doesn't appear they have been copied to the new platform to enable the HI calculation to be made. If they send them out now many will be incomplete - why would you do that?

 

[rulefan]

Apologies once again but I don't understand this ?

I'm inclined to agree

When taking the individual score record the transition routine should have taken the CSS instead of using the Course Rating. That would have brought the Differential down by the Score Differential between (CSS - SSS).
The formula is Score Differential = (113/Slope) x (Gross - CR - PCC)
PCC is the equivalent of (CSS - SSS)
So the formula is Score Differential = (113/Slope) x (Gross - CR - (CSS - SSS))

 

[Swango1980]

I think for once those that have seen this data are all in agreement it is an utter shamble. England golf have come out of this process with egg all over them not just face. How can they have two years to sort, rest of world been doing this for 10 months and we still can’t get it rights. As someone already said they should hold there head in shame. We have one member who has 9 cards on the database, with a handicap of 14. They have used three cards all of yellows in non comp which he used to get his handicap to give him a HI of 8. But the other six cards disregarded he never get below after adjustment of a gross 90. All seems very unfair and chaotic.

Just think, regular golfers, most of whom have no interest in how CONGU or WHS work, will have to use this for real in less than 2 weeks. So far, they have not seen the WHS Portal. They have no idea what their Index is. Hopefully some have bothered to listen to what their club has been saying about how it works generally. However, I think many many golfers, even those that have tried to learn about WHS, will be in for a shock on 2nd November, and everything has changed.

And personally, as a handicap secretary who has tried to learn about this for a couple of years, I have no idea how any of this will look to them. What will howdidido look like when a golfer logs in (or whichever ISV is used)? How will Club V1 competition templates and handicapping sections look different. Will golfers use howdidido, or WHS Portal? How will they pre-register for supplementary scores and submit them before midnight. How will the software be set up to allow handicap secretaries to easily check when a dodgy supplementary has been added?

This was promised to be so so easy. Just log into an app, check your index, and off you go. For a system where golfers will be heavily reliant on the software, I am shocked that we haven't seen the final version months before launch, so we know exactly what we are facing when it comes into play.

 

[Mozza14]

I think for once those that have seen this data are all in agreement it is an utter shamble. England golf have come out of this process with egg all over them not just face. How can they have two years to sort, rest of world been doing this for 10 months and we still can’t get it rights. As someone already said they should hold there head in shame. We have one member who has 9 cards on the database, with a handicap of 14. They have used three cards all of yellows in non comp which he used to get his handicap to give him a HI of 8. But the other six cards disregarded he never get below after adjustment of a gross 90. All seems very unfair and chaotic.

I think all Clubs will have similar. The system really only works well with more acceptable scores than only a few. in all fairness, our Club made it clear that 20 scores was the ideal and warned that a low number of cards would penalise the golfer. In spite of that, many chose not to address the issue and they will initially be left with the result you have described.