WHS Handicap Index - Finally Revealed

[nickjdavis]

Do you do this on your ISV as supplementary cards, or do you do this directly on WHS Portal?

I cant add these as new supplementaries on the current system as they would modify the players current CONGU handicap. So I'm entering retrospective scores directly on the portal.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

They will issue an index but in today’s zoom farce it was explain that their records will not be updated as that requires the individual to register a WHS acc with EG and email address and DOB are the method of authentication.

By the end of the meeting my brain was fried but that’s how I understand it.

We got a request today from the club to allow the club to provide EG with our DOB and email address - clearly for the reason you have described.

 

[rulefan]

Since my course isn't rated that's the only option I have to get a rough idea at the moment.

Try 125. I think that is the value which will be assigned temporarily to unrated courses.

 

[IanM]

3 weeks to go and our sec has issued another email saying all WHS queries must go to the WGU direct as he won't deal with any! I'd love an off-the-record chat about what he thinks!

I'm ignoring all of it as I can' t currently play qualifiers as we've stopped them and I can't visit my home club due to travel restrictions over here! Sure by next March it'll be sorted or canned!

 

[jim8flog]

. 38 of the pending golfers haven't returned a score of any type since Jan 2018...in some cases up to six years.

Interesting point that. Back some months ago England Golf were adamant that such players would be given a handicap index.

Caused a minor uproar at our club when I said they would not.

 

[IanG]

I wonder if we'll stop obsessing about avoiding increases as much and just accept it for whatever it is on any given day.

Agreed - I think, once the initial ructions are over, this will be the outcome and be no bad thing.

 

[Swango1980]

Interesting point that. Back some months ago England Golf were adamant that such players would be given a handicap index.

Caused a minor uproar at our club when I said they would not.

It seems like they where just guessing a lot of the time. Personally, if a golfer hasn't submitted a score since Jan 2018, I'm not that bothered about them getting an index. However, it was definitely said they'd get one, so they were wrong there.

However, to not give new members a handicap, despite them only just obtaining it, is pathetic. Furthermore, even members who have just obtained a handicap, but since played 3 rounds since, will have an index but it will completely ignore their base 3 cards, which could provide a pretty unexpected handicap difference in some cases

 

[Bdill93]

This seems like such a joke. I don’t envy any handicap sec as of present. I’ll lose my mind, as will many of the 50+ new members at my club. Why have we bothered to get handicaps and played in comps to get more cards in too, if we don’t have a handicap index allocated to us in November ? hope to hear that it’s sorted before then!!

 

[Canfordhacker]

I think (hope) the course has been re-rated but the number not published yet. The old rating was 130 (although significant changes since then).

Ours hasn't been published to us by the club, so i used the one I looked up here in my calculations.

https://ncrdb.usga.org/courseTeeInfo.aspx?CourseID=20242

 

[Imurg]

Try 125. I think that is the value which will be assigned temporarily to unrated courses.

Whipsnade has been given temporary ratings of 117/114 so that may, or may not, be correct

 

[rulefan]

Whipsnade has been given temporary ratings of 117/114 so that may, or may not, be correct

Interesting. I guess one or more of the raters must be familiar with it.

 

[TheJezster]

Try 125. I think that is the value which will be assigned temporarily to unrated courses.

I can confirm this is the case. Whilst our course is rated, for some reason its showing as non rated on the system , which has screwed up all the indexes.

We're hoping that EG are able to fix this, otherwise it looks like EVERY members round for the last 2 years will have to be manually v entered!! Obviously ridiculous

We're waiting on clarification

 

[Swango1980]

I cant add these as new supplementaries on the current system as they would modify the players current CONGU handicap. So I'm entering retrospective scores directly on the portal.

Hold fire Nick. Despite WHS replying yesterday saying that either the ISV guys need to sort this, or club committees need to manually put these scores in, I have just checked today and the new golfers whose handicap was shown as Pending, now have a handicap.

My only concern now is, one of the ladies got her first handicap of 45 a few weeks ago. She played in a competition last week, her 1st round with a handicap, and got a chop to 40.9. She also handed in a supplementary card yesterday, no change to handicap. However, her WHS Index is 45.0 (giving her a course handicap of 56.

So, I'm a bit concerned that WHS is omitting a load of rounds played in the last month or so for some players??? Also, if it is simply giving new members a Handicap Index that matches their CONGU handicap, then they will suddenly get more shots as a course handicap, especially high handicappers (given that in most cases, everyone's handicap index is lower than their current CONGU handicap

 

[rulefan]

Are you sure that are not using an old data extract?

 

[Swango1980]

Are you sure that are not using an old data extract?

How do you mean (if referred to me)?

My comments were related to what was present on WHS Portal today (and still is after checking now). I think it is going to be vital for handicap secretaries to check new member handicaps. We have a few in our winter league. One chap has a Congu Handicap of 28.0 (his initial handicap was 30, but has since entered 1 score, and it went to 28.0). Therefore, his Index is 28.0. Therefore, come 2nd November, his Course Handicap off yellows will be 32, whereas most other golfers have an Index lower than their CONGU handicap, but course handicap is about the same. It also seems that scores entered in the last week or 2 are missing from the WHS portal, but I don't want to enter them manually inc ase they magically appear and are then duplicated.

Questions:

1. The ladies competition that happened last week is not included in any of the players WHS scoring history (it was a qualifier), nor any recent supplementary cards. Do we think these will appear at any point?
2. If we have qualifiers between now and November, will they appear on WHS Portal handicap calculations?
3. If golfers hand in supplementary cards in next few weeks, should these be entered on ISV (Club V! in my case) as normal, or directly in WHS Portal?
4. After 2nd November, can we enter supplementary cards in Club V1, or must these be done in WHS Portal (i.e. is Club V1 only for comps only)?

 

[badgergm]

Try 125. I think that is the value which will be assigned temporarily to unrated courses.

At the moment I don't know:

- Course rating
- Slope to be used in absence of a slope rating
- Whether SSS or CSS will be used or not

The transitional rules aren't (or shouldn't be) so complicated that they cant be clearly published in advance. It's a ridiculous situation.

If CSS isn't used then the transition will be a farce in my view.

 

[rulefan]

As I posted in another thread

EG. It uses the Gross Differential (so uses the CSS).

 

[rulefan]

How do you mean (if referred to me)?

My comments were related to what was present on WHS Portal today (and still is after checking now). I think it is going to be vital for handicap secretaries to check new member handicaps. We have a few in our winter league. One chap has a Congu Handicap of 28.0 (his initial handicap was 30, but has since entered 1 score, and it went to 28.0). Therefore, his Index is 28.0. Therefore, come 2nd November, his Course Handicap off yellows will be 32, whereas most other golfers have an Index lower than their CONGU handicap, but course handicap is about the same. It also seems that scores entered in the last week or 2 are missing from the WHS portal, but I don't want to enter them manually inc ase they magically appear and are then duplicated.

Questions:

1. The ladies competition that happened last week is not included in any of the players WHS scoring history (it was a qualifier), nor any recent supplementary cards. Do we think these will appear at any point?
2. If we have qualifiers between now and November, will they appear on WHS Portal handicap calculations?
3. If golfers hand in supplementary cards in next few weeks, should these be entered on ISV (Club V! in my case) as normal, or directly in WHS Portal?
4. After 2nd November, can we enter supplementary cards in Club V1, or must these be done in WHS Portal (i.e. is Club V1 only for comps only)?

I suspect the data was extracted from the CDH to provide simulated data input to WHS some days ago. This file is formatted as will be the file the ISVs send in the overnight run.
This will formatted with the score information taken from the player's input and the static course details. I doubt that the WHS can/will actually take data directly from the CDH. The CDH will simply stop on Nov 2.

 

[Swango1980]

As I posted in another thread

EG. It uses the Gross Differential (so uses the CSS).

Apologies, but have you seen the WHS Platform yet??? As others have said, there is no evidence as all yet that CSS has been used. I will give you an example.

We had a competition on 29/8/20 in which the CSS was 71 (SSS=69). The winner shot gross 88 (no nett double bogey adjustments required). The Slope of the Course is 133

So, if CSS was used, his Score differential would be = (88-71) x 113/133 = 14.4

If Course Rating was used (which is 69.4), his Score differential would be = (88-69.4) x 113/133 = 15.8

The WHS Platform clearly shows his "Score Diff" for that round as 15.8, which means that CSS has not been used at all.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

I suspect the data was extracted from the CDH to provide simulated data input to WHS some days ago. This file is formatted as will be the file the ISVs send in the overnight run.
This will formatted with the score information taken from the player's input and the static course details. I doubt that the WHS can/will actually take data directly from the CDH. The CDH will simply stop on Nov 2.

We haven't had any updates to scores on the EG Platform for a couple of weeks despite them being processed on Club V1.

There must be a synchronisation before they start giving members access.