wjemather
Well-known member
So 100% allowance for fields under 30, as actually recommended in the WHS manual?
WHS - current GM article
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Slab
Occasional Tour Caddy
Maybe I was naïve in saying I’d like to read a follow up article, it could just be the authors opinion (& worth the same as many others) but the article is titled “Why The World Handicap System Has Ruined Golf For Low Handicappers” not ‘Why The World Handicap System Has Ruined Golf For Me’ and the bio says they've been writing for golf mags for 20 years
If someone that well connected in the industry says whs (one of the biggest changes to AM golf in many years) has knackered things for low handicappers I’d like to know; if they’re right/how right they are
And if someone in that position can’t get some facetime with a whs expert to get a response to that opinion, what chance for forumers on here ever reaching a conclusion on the matter… Close the thread then?
If someone that well connected in the industry says whs (one of the biggest changes to AM golf in many years) has knackered things for low handicappers I’d like to know; if they’re right/how right they are
And if someone in that position can’t get some facetime with a whs expert to get a response to that opinion, what chance for forumers on here ever reaching a conclusion on the matter… Close the thread then?
Crow
Crow Person
Yes, please close the thread. 
Swango1980
Well-known member
And we could tell them to start practicing, invest in a few lessons, and then recap the rewards in the future.
You're welcome
At any rate, apart from the few actual bandits I know, most high handicappers want nothing more to get their handicap as low as possible. I suspect they'd be delighted if it was cut to 75% (btw, I don't actually agree with the 75% number, as I know it was just used as a bit of an extreme number to make an amusing point)
LincolnShep
Head Pro
I would be. In fact, make it 69% and, combined with the low slope at my new club, I'd be a single figure golfer for the first time ever!
Swango1980
Well-known member
Well, as long as you are happy that you won't clean up in virtually all of the Opens you enter
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
I'm 4.3 at the moment, but if I could get down to 3.8 next year, I could go to Painswick and play from the yellow tees, I will be off scratch for the first time in my life.
What fun!
JonnyGutteridge
Newbie
And we could tell them to start practicing, invest in a few lessons, and then recap the rewards in the future.
You're welcome
At any rate, apart from the few actual bandits I know, most high handicappers want nothing more to get their handicap as low as possible. I suspect they'd be delighted if it was cut to 75% (btw, I don't actually agree with the 75% number, as I know it was just used as a bit of an extreme number to make an amusing point)
I have absolutely no problems with WHS for higher handicappers. As you say, they want to be as low as they can.
My gripe with WHS is the impact on low handicappers;
- supplementary cards for old “cat 1” golfers are such a nonsense
- handicap ballots for Opens have created a wave of “vanity” handicap golfers (who love to hand in supplementary cards)
There’s loads who have completely undercut me whilst not playing to their handicap in a single comp, shooting 65 at Mr Mulligan’s Pirate Adventure golf, and getting a lower handicap - who then make the ballot at open events and then stink the place out with 85/87. It’s very frustrating.
An additional thingy I don’t like at all;
My handicap has moved between 3.2 and 4.3 since the new system was introduced. I’ve played 60 odd competitive rounds - 0 supplementaries. My form has varied significantly, but my handicap has remained consistent and I am fine with that.
However, I’ve played plenty of people in matchplay who have been 5-7 handicaps and said “oh I was off 2 a year ago, won the club champs in 2021 under par, then hit a bad patch of form”… and they’ve handed in 35 supplementary cards during a run of bad form.
They then proceed to play like a scratch golfer…
Orikoru
Tour Winner
But if you don't do this, you're accused of having a vanity handicap.An additional thingy I don’t like at all;
My handicap has moved between 3.2 and 4.3 since the new system was introduced. I’ve played 60 odd competitive rounds - 0 supplementaries. My form has varied significantly, but my handicap has remained consistent and I am fine with that.
However, I’ve played plenty of people in matchplay who have been 5-7 handicaps and said “oh I was off 2 a year ago, won the club champs in 2021 under par, then hit a bad patch of form”… and they’ve handed in 35 supplementary cards during a run of bad form.
They then proceed to play like a scratch golfer…
Swango1980
Well-known member
If I'm being honest, I think handing in GP scores helps me in competition golf.I have absolutely no problems with WHS for higher handicappers. As you say, they want to be as low as they can.
My gripe with WHS is the impact on low handicappers;
- supplementary cards for old “cat 1” golfers are such a nonsense
- handicap ballots for Opens have created a wave of “vanity” handicap golfers (who love to hand in supplementary cards)
There’s loads who have completely undercut me whilst not playing to their handicap in a single comp, shooting 65 at Mr Mulligan’s Pirate Adventure golf, and getting a lower handicap - who then make the ballot at open events and then stink the place out with 85/87. It’s very frustrating.
An additional thingy I don’t like at all;
My handicap has moved between 3.2 and 4.3 since the new system was introduced. I’ve played 60 odd competitive rounds - 0 supplementaries. My form has varied significantly, but my handicap has remained consistent and I am fine with that.
However, I’ve played plenty of people in matchplay who have been 5-7 handicaps and said “oh I was off 2 a year ago, won the club champs in 2021 under par, then hit a bad patch of form”… and they’ve handed in 35 supplementary cards during a run of bad form.
They then proceed to play like a scratch golfer…
I've a really loopy, inconsistent swing. It can take me ages to get any rhythm, or at least understand what my bad shot of the day is, and then either fixing it or working around it. If I play GP rounds, I just rock up to the club and out I go. I'm doing my best, and there is often money (or loser buys the drinks) on it, but I'm often very inconsistent, especially on front 9. Also, we like to get around pretty quickly, or at least not hold any of the fast social groups up behind, so most shots are hit very quickly without too much prep.
Come a club competition, I'll often hit 50 balls at the range, and can build a bit of confidence on what my swing for the day is. I'll go on the putting green. Once I start the round, groups around us are usually a bit slower anyway, so a bit more focus and prep can go into certain shots. Certainly will play more conservatively to try and score the best comp score, whereas in GP I may take some silly risks without worrying about the negative outcome too much.
Pre WHS the above probably wouldn't matter too much. I didn't hand in GP scores back then, but even if I did they probably wouldn't give me much of a handicap boost. After WHS, I think those GP rounds boost my Index, even when it is at its lower end. Pre WHS my handicap was 6. Post WHS it typically has floated around low 8's up to over 11, and it can fluctuate between those extremes inside a month. This gives me a course handicap between 10-14.
I can potentially see it have the opposite effect for other players who get nervous in comps. They tend to post really bad scores in comps, handicap edges upwards, but when they are off the yellows with mates, seem to shoot great scores a lot more often than you'd expect from your average golfer.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Yes why not.
As long as they reduce it the more fields get bigger.
Birdie2
Club Champion
I don’t disagree with anything you’ve posted but consider it the other way too.I have absolutely no problems with WHS for higher handicappers. As you say, they want to be as low as they can.
My gripe with WHS is the impact on low handicappers;
- supplementary cards for old “cat 1” golfers are such a nonsense
- handicap ballots for Opens have created a wave of “vanity” handicap golfers (who love to hand in supplementary cards)
There’s loads who have completely undercut me whilst not playing to their handicap in a single comp, shooting 65 at Mr Mulligan’s Pirate Adventure golf, and getting a lower handicap - who then make the ballot at open events and then stink the place out with 85/87. It’s very frustrating.
An additional thingy I don’t like at all;
My handicap has moved between 3.2 and 4.3 since the new system was introduced. I’ve played 60 odd competitive rounds - 0 supplementaries. My form has varied significantly, but my handicap has remained consistent and I am fine with that.
However, I’ve played plenty of people in matchplay who have been 5-7 handicaps and said “oh I was off 2 a year ago, won the club champs in 2021 under par, then hit a bad patch of form”… and they’ve handed in 35 supplementary cards during a run of bad form.
They then proceed to play like a scratch golfer…
I put in a lot of general play cards for two reasons:
1) I want my handicap to be a true reflection of my ability and want take pride in having a low handicap
2) I don’t enter all of the stableford competitions because it’s pointless as I can’t compete with the field off of a low playing handicap (3)
badgergm
Newbie
Yes - many of those type are society type golf where often get 100%.
See post #269 - do you have an idea of the field size where 90% makes more sense?
wjemather
Well-known member
As you said earlier, it would depend on the make up of the field; it also depends on what you are wanting to achieve/prioritise.
There are good reasons why the rules say "desired equity", and handicapping authorities recommend divisions/flights/grades.
D-S
Well-known member
Is the recommendation for divisions/flights/grades for both matchplay and strokeplay?
wjemather
Well-known member
Since the guidance recommends divisions in relation to the allocation of prizes, it can really only apply to strokeplay.
But if a club has a scratch matchplay, up to 7 h’cap, a mid-h’cap, 8 to 17, a rabbits matchplay, 18 and up and a matchplay across all handicaps… Add in divisions for stroke play and Stableford, just what is the problem?
wjemather
Well-known member
There is no problem, as long as everyone is afforded to opportunity to play comps, and do so without being discriminated against.
Clubs could also run separate strokeplay comps for different handicap brackets instead of having divisions in the same comp (i.e. similar to you describe for matchplay knockouts).
D-S
Well-known member
Exactly, this is divisions for matchplay so I would think it is utterly sensible. I was just asking if the ‘authorities’ recommend this as well.
wjemather
Well-known member
I'd say that it's entirely separate competitions rather than divisions.
The only suggestion I have seen in this regard is to consider having a have a secondary competition(s) if there are handicap limits/restrictions on the principal one.
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